Examining Anti-Americanism
POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 16:25
VIEWED: 6927
PAGE 4 of 7
Quote:NOTE TO ALL:
Originally posted by SignyM:
While it's possible to create a imminent threat out of nothing (after all, we did it with Saddam)
Signy DID NOT mean Saddam was an okay dude, or that he never killed lots and lots of peeps. Signy meant 'as an imminent world threat', okay?
Nipped in the bud Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Thanks Chris. I meant something even more restricted: an imminent threat to the USA.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I just saw a potential for the evil straw-man offensive there...
Originally posted by SignyM:
Thanks Chris. I meant something even more restricted: an imminent threat to the USA.
ChrisisallNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, re Noam Chomsky. Sigh, if you're referring to me, it is my misfortune to keep reinventing the wheel. I don't know if that means I'm smarter or stupider than him, but my arguments are all my own.
Couldn't help but notice that they're similar in content and expression to Chomsky's. Great minds, and all.
Quote:Every form of dislike revolves around fear, to a certain extent. So, are these rational fears?
Everything in this list revolves around fear: fear of loss of cultural identity, economic viability, or sovereignty;
Fear of loss of cultural identity, more often called "Americanization", is interesting, because it is the populations of other countries who choose to become "Americanized". Given the option of sticking 100% to their culture, or adopting some American ideas, habits, food, dress, etc. they sometimes choose the American stuff. The French and German elites seem particularly terrified by this. I find it hard to believe that any time a Frenchman eats a Big Mac, America is forcing it down his throat. Also note that Americans don't seem to have any problem with picking up bits of other cultures and making them their own.
Fear of loss of economic viability has a couple of branches. America is big, but transportation of goods is relatively cheap, so the economies of scale gave it a good economic boost in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. World War II also left America with just about the only standing industrial base. Economic domination under these circumstances seems inevitable. If maintaining this domination after WWII was the American's plan, they didn't do too good a job of it. Any number of European and Asian companies compete with America on the world market, and even in America.
Fear of loss of sovereignty and of interference with internal processes is probably the most valid. America has been guilty of both. Most all countries who have been major players on the world stage have done so, but that does not excuse it. Unfortunately, smaller countries are always vulnerable to undue influence and interference, but Western Europe and the advanced Asian nations shouldn't have to worry.
Quote:
Because America has a long history of global interference,
110 years, maybe? Compare with any European nation.
Quote:
a current military footprint all over the world and retains its position as the holder of world currency, everyone sees the USA as the driver of unwelcome changes. They fear these changes and their inability to deflect them.
But is this fear justified? Only if you subscribe to the "Rogue" or "Outlaw" nation theory put forth by Mr. Chomsky and others.
Quote:
But the United States is a democracy, as Bush reminds everyone at every opportunity. I think previous to the Iraq invasion most people distinguished between our government and people, but the high approval rating of George Bush and his invasion of Iraq made it obvious that Americans cannot be counted on to prevent government from egregious acts.
Anti-Americanism, especially concerning people, culture, and social systems, was prevalent long before Pres. Bush, or even Pres. Bush I. It doesn't depend so much on who's in office. It's basis is that America is wrong, root and branch. Our beliefs, our culture, our economic system. I found it interesting that the French said one of the things they dislike about America was our obsession with religion, while the Arab states said it was our lack of religion.
Quote:
Using the USA as a foil for internal politics only works because we're a relevant target. While it's possible to create a imminent threat out of nothing (after all, we did it with Saddam) it's hard to keep the justification alive very long.
Not really. European socialists sucesfully kept up the railing about "Imperialist America" from WWII to the end of the Soviet Union, while ignoring the Soviet empire of captured countries on their eastern border. Now they've shifted to railing ab
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:If you look back in history, you'll find an "anti" for just about every nation. The French hate the British and the Brits have not had much nice to say in return, the Koreans and Chinese hate the Japanese, and the Arabs hate Israel. Focusing on "anti-Americanism" makes it sound like we're the ONLY nation that's ever been disliked and -gosh!- people have been picking on us since whenever!
Anti-Americanism, especially concerning people, culture, and social systems, was prevalent long before Pres. Bush, or even Pres. Bush I. It doesn't depend so much on who's in office.
While you can find a low-level anti-American feeling throughout history, it's been balanced by pro-American feelings and prolly been more or less on-par with the anti-everyone-else feeling. But that feeling flares up in response to events. The first big wave of anti_Americanism that I recall was during Vietnam. The second flareup was after we invaded Iraq. According to the wikipedia entry, favorable view of America went down to half (or less) of it's previous values after the Iraq invasion. I don't think there's anything strange or peculiar about waves of anti-Americanism as they seem to result directly from what we do, and if we were to stop doing what we do the feelign would subside to be more-or-less on par with the usual backbiting and griping that normally goes on between nations. .
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Here's a question for you history buffs! I don't know the answer so it's not a trick question, but whyizzit that of all the major mainland European nations, France is the only one with an independent nuclear weapons program AND which does not have American bases in its soil?
Charles de Gaulle. He wanted France to have defense capability and nuclear weapons independent of NATO. He also wanted to return France to what he considered her rightful place in the world.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
If you look back in history, you'll find an "anti" for just about every nation. The French hate the British and the Brits have not had much nice to say in return, the Koreans and Chinese hate the Japanese, and the Arabs hate Israel.
Not us! Everyone loves the Irish!
...except the English.
...and Singate.
Banners, Avatars, LJ Icons and other fun stuff at www.desktophippie.com
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Probably has something to do with the thread's title, "Examining Anti-Americanism".
Originally posted by SignyM:
If you look back in history, you'll find an "anti" for just about every nation. The French hate the British and the Brits have not had much nice to say in return, the Koreans and Chinese hate the Japanese, and the Arabs hate Israel. Focusing on "anti-Americanism" makes it sound like we're the ONLY nation that's ever been disliked and -gosh!- people have been picking on us since whenever!
Quote:
I don't think there's anything strange or peculiar about waves of anti-Americanism as they seem to result directly from what we do, and if we were to stop doing what we do the feelign would subside to be more-or-less on par with the usual backbiting and griping that normally goes on between nations.
But strangely enough, no matter what we do it sparks a wave. American economic success in the late 1800s sparked a wave in Europe. The success of America's polyglot "mongrel" culture set off a wave in pre-WWI Germany. American success in helping to liberate France made the French mad. Ading in the defense of Europe from the Soviet Union made European intellectuals angry. Keeping North Korea from taking over South Korea made lots of folks unhappy. Military intervention in Iraq made people upset. Failure to intervene militarily in Rwanda and Darfur made people upset. If we just withdrew to our borders and didn't deal with anyone in the world, that'd aggravate folks too.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I think that is just human nature.
In fifty years time the Chinese will probably be complaining about Sinophobia.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I'm roughly half Irish & 1/4 English...
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Everyone loves the Irish!
...except the English.
...and Singate.
and I love me fine.
Sure an it's Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME