We tortured some folks
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, June 1, 2025 14:38
VIEWED: 16333
PAGE 3 of 13
I'll ignore some silly " thought experiment " and deal with the world as it is.
Every one, according to Brennan, of the detainees who had EIT's revealed valuable, legitimate information.
Every single one.
And here's the kicker no one wants to admit or acknowledge.
Every detainee had the power to avoid EIT, completely, had they chosen. There was no torture, what so ever. There wasn't any punishment for being Muslim, or for being brown skinned. These were committed killers, intent on attacking and killing as many innocents as possible. They had hoped for as much as 10,000+ lives lost on 9/11, but only had to settle for near 3,000.
Even so, you don't clip off their fingers, you don't dunk them in baths of acid, or put car battery cables to their genitals. But you do show them you mean business,. and make them give up the information they DO have. Not just crap they think we want to hear, because that does no one any good when it comes to saving lives.
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Quote:You forgot drilling into knees, a variation on kneecapping. Going soft in your old age. Need Viagra?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'll ignore some silly " thought experiment " and deal with the world as it is. . . .
Even so, you don't clip off their fingers, you don't dunk them in baths of acid, or put car battery cables to their gentiles.
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Mighty healthy as is, but thanks anyways.
And yeah, I omitted all manner of ugly things, ACTUAL torture, because there really is no end to the depravity of man, the further one goes down that path.
Glad we didn't. We should be praising our guys, not vilifying them, for protecting our country.
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Quote:Let's give them Special Olympics trophies for trying really hard, but they're not really winners. That's in your signature, "America loves a winner!" America despises losers. If only they had done everything possible, used every weapon in their arsenal, including real torture, they might have won. Bush, rather than Obama, might have even captured Osama bin Laden.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
We should be praising our guys, not vilifying them, for protecting our country.
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Quote:
Because. of course, the reason why the USA was created wasn't because there were a lot of people who shared an idea of how they wanted to live, but because George Washington bombed the colonists into supporting his cause.
Or whatever.
Pods.-SIGNY
Yeah, that happened.
Not.-RAPPY
I sometimes think your reading comprehension is less than zero. How is that even possible?
You just agreed with me. Or didn't you notice?
That was my point: the United States wasn't founded because George Washington and the Founding Fathers bombed, shelled, and shot their way through the colonists in order to get everyone in line. It just didn't happen. Which goes along with my central premise, which I'll repeat in detail so that you and the rest or your rightwing buddies might actually understand this time:
There is only one valid reason to kill, and that's in immediate defense of self or others against a deadly threat. If a nation finds itself repeatedly invading large numbers of people in faraway lands (as the Brits did to the USA) it's a near-certainty that they've moved far, far beyond the notion of "self defense" and into the realm of trying to "build a society" (or at least an empire) on guns and bombs.
It's not going to happen. Unless a government wins in the mindspace ... the marketplace of ideas ... hearts and minds .... however you term it ... killing people to impose your ideals of "free market" or whatever it is that you're trying to impose isn't going to work. You would have to kill every resistance leader, and even then you would just create more resistance leaders. That was the lesson of Vietnam and of jihad: you have to offer more than defeat, humiliation, and death if trying to convert people to your plan.
And, just to drive a point home in case GWHIZ and KOP are reading: Peoples have a right to secede. It would have saved so much time and trouble if King George had recognized that concept lo these many years ago.
You can DEFEND a nation with bombs and guns, you might build a nation on top of the remains of a genocided one (as we did with the natives, as THUGR so rightly pointed out!) you just can't build one by forcing everyone to your POV on pain of death.
Quote:The evidence of your utter confusion about what I just said, and (even funnier) about what YOU just said.
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns. -SIGNY
Yes, we can. Actually, we HAVE !!-RAPPY
To tell you the truth, I'm laughing right now. But please, don't think I'm laughing AT you ...
Quote:And every single instance that Brennan pointed to has been disproved. Every one. When you claim that you got "actionable intelligence" to detain a person from a victim of torture, but that person was detained a YEAR BEFORE the information was obtained via torture, that is serious serious timeline sloppiness! WTF??? What are we paying these guys for? They can't even lie convincingly!
Every one, according to Brennan, of the detainees who had EIT's revealed valuable, legitimate information.Every single one.-RAPPY
BTW, torture has never been about extracting information, and if you think so you're a simpleton. It's about causing the population to feel anything from mild unease to deep terror whenever they contemplate resisting the authority. It's about establishing control through terror. Or, if you want to look at it under the formal definition: terrorism. In this case, state terrorism. The information gathered from people who're babbling anything and everything just to get the pain and fear to stop is useless, and everyone who practices torture knows it.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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I'll ignore some silly " thought experiment " ... ... because thinking, is just too hard.
I LOLed on your disavowal of 'thinking' rappy. It's what we knew about you all along, but you made it funny by bumbling into ARROGANTLY admitting it.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:You're not being forceful enough with AURaptor. Go all the way.
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I'll ignore some silly " thought experiment " ... ... because thinking, is just too hard.
I LOLed on your disavowal of 'thinking' rappy. It's what we knew about you all along, but you made it funny by bumbling into ARROGANTLY admitting it.
Dick Cheney should have ordered some real torture, the kind that even Republicans agree is illegal. He didn't because he was afraid. He didn't want to be put on trial after leaving the White House.
If Cheney had won the war, using real torture, no American jury would have convicted him. Instead of doing the right thing to protect America, Cheney did the right thing to protect Cheney. He is still doing it on TV by claiming there was no "real" torture as part of his defense. As a second line of defense, Cheney claims his brand of "fake" torture (the so called enhanced interrogation) won the war.
Cheney ought to take a European vacation and dare the French to arrest him. Cheney can prove that enhanced interrogation is not torture and perfectly legal. Who would not be convinced by his solid arguments defending himself?
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Sig - I do not think you say what you think you say.
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I didn't disavow " thinking " at all. I dismiss a silly mental masturbation exercise in lieu of actual real world events.
Some here are do full of themselves & their paradigms.
Don't get stuck on stupid
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Just terrible, a real tragedy; like a bus filled with liberals going off a mountain cliff ..... with one empty seat.
What do you call a dozen liberals buried up to their necks in sand?
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not enough sand.
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