So, when I hear Iraq is being taken over by I.S.I.S. ...

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Sunday, March 8, 2026 16:42
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SIGNYM

Friday, June 20, 2014 9:42 PM

Quote:
The news and reputable sources on the internet tells us all they know of what is going on. The reporters on the ground there tell us what is going on.

Well, there's your problem right there.

"The news" has wittingly passed on false stories, and knowingly withheld information, and this has come out as fact weeks, months... and sometimes years later. Heck, look at Judith Miller of the NYT who flogged the Iraqi WMD story for all it was worth. And SHE knew it was crap, and was rightly disgraced and fired.

Quote:
"Ms. Miller may still be best known for her role in a series of Times articles in 2002 and 2003 that strongly suggested Saddam Hussein already had or was acquiring an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction… Many of those articles turned out to be inaccurate ... [T]he problems facing her inside and outside the newsroom will make it difficult for her to return to the paper as a reporter."

Most news items are official releases by SOME arm of the government, from a "high White House source" to the "county commissioner" to the local animal shelter. If it's not an official release, it's a leak - either to plant a story or to test public response. Foreign reporters get their news "helpfully" provided to them by the side we're supporting, with pictures and dog-and-pony shows all arranged. You will seldom see the "other side" in the MSM. But you can tell a load of crap from a mile off, if you know what you're looking for.

This goes for EVERY press outlet. The secret is to look at MANY sources... not just the official sources but Tehran Times (for example) or wherever you need to go to find as many views as possible, and then keep the interests of the organization releasing the news in mind, because everyone wants to project a certain message/ image and will tailor their news accordingly.

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Democracy is a sham designed to fool us into believing we are in control. That a small group of unknown, unaccountable elites is actually pulling the strings and pretty much deciding the course of history;

Funny, but there was just a paper about that recently, written by well-respected scholars -one from an Ivy league school - and they came up with exactly that conclusion. You might want to read it.

http://www.princeton.edu/~mgilens/Gilens%20homepage%20materials/Gilens
%20and%20Page/Gilens%20and%20Page%202014-Testing%20Theories%203-7-14.pdf

THGRRI

Friday, June 20, 2014 10:46 PM

Quote:
signym

Well, there's your problem right there.

"The news" has wittingly passed on false stories, and knowingly withheld information, and this has come out as fact weeks, months... and sometimes years later. Heck, look at Judith Miller of the NYT who flogged the Iraqi WMD story for all it was worth. And SHE knew it was crap, and was rightly disgraced and fired.

There’s your problem right there.

You pick an anecdotal story and use it to paint a whole industry with the same brush. I do not listen to the talking heads on the news but instead the guests who have a long history of experience. I hear them out weather I agree with them or not. Not opinion columnists like Bill Crystal but people like Zbigniew Brzezinski or Ken Pollack. Stanley McChrystal, Michael Hayden, Michael Morell, Richard Haass, Richard Engel, and some of the White House Press Core or Dr Roham Alvandi.

What’s my point? I have to see you have an understanding or position that you can defend and explain in a cohesive framework. Experience in the history of the region which is relevant. I then form an opinion that is agreeable to yours or not that is based on my best assessment of all I have learned. You should try it.

Quote:

Most news items are official releases by SOME arm of the government, from a "high White House source" to the "county commissioner" to the local animal shelter

I read what you wright destroying the credibility of the way news is disseminated in this country right down to the local dog catcher and then suggest I read the “Tehran Times”. It is very easy to cut through all the subjective crap you post and get right down to why you imply what you imply. Let’s see if the others following this thread can catch it.

si shen

THGRRI

Friday, June 20, 2014 11:24 PM

I want to add this discussion and remind people Joe Biden Called this many years ago when he first became Vice President; maybe before.

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/is-help-from-iran-a-solution--2
85028419576

http://www.msnbc.com/the-daily-rundown/watch/jim-webb-on-the-iraq-cris
is-285130819900

Yes they are both MSNBC links but look at who is speaking not where.

si shen

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 21, 2014 3:39 AM

So, what has Dexter Filkins gotten right??
One of the great things about the inet is that what you write is there for all to see. But unlike KPO's PREDICTIONS THREAD, nobody ever seems to go back and see if ... after the passage of time and the revelation of more information... any of the bloviating was ever validated. Scrolling thru his articles, I find this, from the New Yorker June 2013
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/06/obama-acts-on-s
yria-is-it-too-late.html

Quote:
Timing is everything: the White House’s announcement, on Thursday afternoon, that America’s intelligence agencies had concluded that Bashar al-Assad’s regime was deploying chemical weapons came just as the dictator appeared to be turning back the rebels in Syria’s terrible civil war.... Ben Rhodes, a deputy national-security advisor, said that the White House had “high confidence” in the finding that chemical weapons like sarin gas had been used, and that Assad—and not the rebels—had used them. The White House conclusion dovetailed with those of other governments, including France, and non-governmental organizations, such as the Syrian Support Group. It also mirrored what a Syrian eyewitness to an apparent chemical attack told me when I interviewed him for a piece in The New Yorker.

It all evaporated.... not only did Obama's "intel" and outrage evaporate, so did the call to action.

THGRRI

Quote:
people like Zbigniew Brzezinski or Ken Pollack. Stanley McChrystal, Michael Hayden, Michael Morell, Richard Haass, Richard Engel, and some of the White House Press Core or Dr Roham Alvandi.

Who said what??

“This regionalization is in keeping with the Tri-Lateral Plan which calls for a gradual convergence of East and West, ultimately leading toward the goal of one world government. National sovereignty is no longer a viable concept."

“The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities.”

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind."

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."

"Right after 9/11, I mean, every agency can give their own gradation, but a nice, popular rule of thumb is everybody doubled down. I ended up [...]A with about twice as much money as I had prior to 9/11."

THGRRI

Saturday, June 21, 2014 4:05 AM

Oh no signym look, a house hold item used to create chlorine gas.

(New York) – Evidence strongly suggests that Syrian government helicopters dropped barrel bombs embedded with cylinders of chlorine gas on three towns in Northern Syria in mid-April 2014, Human Rights Watch said today. These attacks used an industrial chemical as a weapon, an act banned by the international treaty prohibiting chemical weapons that Syria joined in October 2013. The Syrian government is the only party to the conflict with helicopters and other aircraft.

Syria’s apparent use of chlorine gas as a weapon – not to mention targeting of civilians – is a plain violation of international law. This is one more reason for the UN Security Council to refer the situation in Syria to the International Criminal Court.

si shen

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 21, 2014 4:07 AM

Seriously? I doubt that Assad used chlorine gas. I also question that he used Sarin. I think we can lay that at the hands of others.

AFA what the White House said... well, the WH said that Saddam had WMD deployed around Baghdad. I can point to many casus belli that turned out to be pure unalloyed bullshit.

THGRRI

Saturday, June 21, 2014 4:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Seriously? I doubt that Assad used chlorine gas. I also question that he used Sarin. I think we can lay that at the hands of others.

The UN investigation team reported that it had confirmed the use of sarin in the Ghouta attack.

Yeah it must have been us working with the Israelis' right.

si shen

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 21, 2014 4:44 AM

But the UN made no claims about WHO used it. And seeing that jihadists with Sarin had been arrested earlier at the Turkish border... and that Assad had absolutely no reason whatsoever to use it, partly because he was winning on the ground and mostly because it stood a good chance of bringing the USA into the war ... plus other evidence that I posted about at the time ... there is every reason to suspect jihadists rather than Assad. As I posted earlier

Quote:
At the time, I was extremely doubtful that Assad's government was to blame. As you may recall, I said that government-made chemical weapons have stabilizers in them, which vary depending on who is doing the manufacturing, and that they're loaded and delivered in mass-produced shells. It should be possible, then, by collecting samples of the chemical agent and by looking for the shells in which the chemicals were delivered to assign blame with less uncertainty.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57708

Oh, and please be a dear and look up some of those quotes. You SAID you follow certain people, do you not?

THGRRI

Saturday, June 21, 2014 5:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But the UN made no claims about WHO used it. And seeing that jihadists with Sarin had been arrested earlier at the Turkish border... and that Assad had absolutely no reason whatsoever to use it, partly because he was winning on the ground and mostly because it stood a good chance of bringing the USA into the war ... plus other evidence that I posted about at the time ... there is every reason to suspect jihadists rather than Assad. As I posted earlier

Quote:
At the time, I was extremely doubtful that Assad's government was to blame. As you may recall, I said that government-made chemical weapons have stabilizers in them, which vary depending on who is doing the manufacturing, and that they're loaded and delivered in mass-produced shells. It should be possible, then, by collecting samples of the chemical agent and by looking for the shells in which the chemicals were delivered to assign blame with less uncertainty.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57708

Oh, and please be a dear and look up some of those quotes. You SAID you follow certain people, do you not?

In the case I sited they were delivered by helicopter in 50 gallon drums, something the rebels do not have. I have 0 expectations of you seeing the truth if it falls from the sky and hits you on the head. After all, you get your news from a source that says the Holocaust did not happen.

"The Tehran Times".

si shen

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:03 AM

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In the case I sited they said they were delivered by helicopter in 50 gallon drums

fixed that for you.

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you get your news from a source that says the Holocaust did not happen.

You get our news from people who believe in one-world government?

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