I wanna do this one more time: Was Mal wrong when he shot that surrendering guy in Serenity?

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Friday, June 6, 2014 05:29
VIEWED: 19444
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OONJERAH

Monday, June 2, 2014 7:05 AM

I guess the real and only relevant question here is:
Would Jesus shoot that surrendering guy in Serenity?
I mean ... if he were in Mal's situation.
.
.
OT, re: Bible.
A neighbor has a (recent?) Catholic Bible, very heavily annotated. Jesuit
style digging. It claims that "Luke" was written 90 years after Christ's death.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

CHRISISALL

Monday, June 2, 2014 8:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
I guess the real and only relevant question here is:
Would Jesus shoot that surrendering guy in Serenity?

Not if he wasn't under pressure to survive. I conjure either way he'd have no trouble sending that killer to Heaven, though (I don't believe in Hell, other than what we make here on Earth).

M52NICKERSON

Monday, June 2, 2014 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Depends on whether you view individual moral judgement and vigilantism as valid ethical conduct, which I suspect you don't, and thus you probably believe that justice can really only be administered by a trial provided by a recognized government with legal jurisdiction.

Even if said government in this case would be corrupt as hell and almost certainly rule in favour of the civilian killing dickhead and against the misrepresented criminal cyber terrorists.

Crow was murder, though justifiable, the guy threatened them after trying to kill them. This after Mal offered the guy a way out without fighting.

For me justice does not come into the equation. Mal is simply not above doing immoral things when it suits him. That includes killing unarmed people, which is murder. This is after Mal tells Simon that if he was going to killing Simon would be awake, facing him and armed. Perhaps that was just for the Doc.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

OONJERAH

Monday, June 2, 2014 12:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
For me justice does not come into the equation. Mal is simply not above doing immoral things when it suits him. That includes killing unarmed people, which is murder. This is after Mal tells Simon that if he was going to killing Simon would be awake, facing him and armed. Perhaps that was just for the Doc.

Since Simon is not a gunslinger like Mal, it still would be murder.
But if River was on hand for this, maybe she'd just kill him with her mind.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

SECOND

Monday, June 2, 2014 6:16 PM

You know what is also convenient as Mal killing "that guy"? For Joss Whedon to kill everyone in Haven.

Realistically, somebody would have survived, somebody would have the commonsense to stay in the mine or inside the buildings. Not everybody will stupidly stand in the open to be a target for the bullet with their name on it.

But with all townspeople ( but Book ) dead in a few overhead passes of a lone gunship strafing from the air, the movie moves faster.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

BYTEMITE

Monday, June 2, 2014 8:16 PM

Quote:
You know what is also convenient as Mal killing "that guy"? For Joss Whedon to kill everyone in Haven.

I'm not sure why the question of survivors on Haven would even come up, but in that case we can add another way for the soldier to die - killed by any survivors if Serenity left him with them.

The buildings looked completely trashed to me, as I already said. The mine... Maybe. Might also have collapsed depending on what kind of bombs were being dropped and how many entrances there are and how deep it is.

BYTEMITE

Monday, June 2, 2014 8:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:

For me justice does not come into the equation. Mal is simply not above doing immoral things when it suits him. That includes killing unarmed people, which is murder. This is after Mal tells Simon that if he was going to killing Simon would be awake, facing him and armed. Perhaps that was just for the Doc.

You're assuming that 1) "killing unarmed" is a specific determination of "murder" (it is not), 2) the Alliance pilot didn't have a pistol on him (unlikely), and 3) that Crow's efforts to kill Mal just prior to the trussing him up in front of an engine to get some concessions doesn't count as facing Mal while armed.

You'd get better mileage out of focusing on the fact the Alliance pilot was surrendering.

CHRISISALL

Monday, June 2, 2014 9:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
For me justice does not come into the equation. Mal is simply not above doing immoral things when it suits him. That includes killing unarmed people, which is murder.

Maybe you missed a piece of Firefly wisdom "When someone tries to kill you, you try an' kill 'em right back."
Mal was willing to ignore that until pushed to it by Crow.

I had a fight once where a kid got me in a headlock & banged my head into a wood door. I got out of the lock, twisted him about, got him in a similar headlock & banged HIS head into a brick wall, which ended the fight. So, m52, I guess I was wrong to use force in excess of what my attacker had used, eh? I should have banged HIS head into a wood door, right? I should have calmed my adrenaline surge and talked down my need for pugilistic irony... measured the situation more carefully... considered the law as it applies to personal combat...

Have you EVER had a fight in your life where blood was drawn?

Here are some simple rules of reality, bro:
Don't jump off a tall building if you don't want to die.
Don't fight a tiger bare handed if you don't want to die.
Don't tell a guy you just unsuccessfully tried to kill that you'll never stop until he's dead if you don't want to die.
Basically, once you set actions in motion, the consequences may or may not be to your liking.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, June 3, 2014 12:00 AM

Quote:
Have you EVER had a fight in your life where blood was drawn?

Ahahaha, I suspect he has actually, he just has a weird sense of law and morality above and beyond what even most people have, and way beyond what shitstains like me got.

Actually I get military vibes from Nick to be truly honest. He's got that same sort of unbreakable rules attitude that they get drilled into them that can seem really contradictory to people inclined to not play by the rules.

M52NICKERSON

Tuesday, June 3, 2014 12:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
You're assuming that 1) "killing unarmed" is a specific determination of "murder" (it is not), 2) the Alliance pilot didn't have a pistol on him (unlikely), and 3) that Crow's efforts to kill Mal just prior to the trussing him up in front of an engine to get some concessions doesn't count as facing Mal while armed.

You'd get better mileage out of focusing on the fact the Alliance pilot was surrendering.

In both cases those people were not a threat at the time in which Mal killed them. That is murder.

Can we understand why Mal killed them, yes. Does it change what it was, no.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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