What's the deal with KPO?
POSTED BY: HKCavalier
UPDATED: Friday, June 7, 2013 19:26
VIEWED: 22000
PAGE 6 of 12
A very interesting thread.
Yes, I think HK was very rude to you Byte, but you also reacted very strongly. I felt like a button had been pushed with you. I am guessing that it was not so much the topic, but the way you were dismissed as not having a right to talk about something that set you off.
I notice that I have a very strong reaction to be dismissed myself, much worse than being disagreed with, and that goes back to how I was treated when I was young.
I'm guessing that all strong reactions, including Jongs, including HK's condemnation of the other thread, relate back to our own painful experiences.
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I will read the thread (on my way out to run the dogs) and comment, if at all, privately. Just two things:
Nobody here, that I'm aware of, has EVER accused you of making things up. That's what you PERCEIVE people as saying; what I'm saying is that sometimes you PERCEIVE things differently than they are, and that's a prime example. Every human being walking this earth perceives things through their own "filter"--many have mentioned this before. We do not perceive everything accurately, and if we don't seek clarification when we MISUNDERSTAND something, it gets set in cement and it's what we BELIEVE. Even when we try to clarify things, we ALL still perceive them through a filter.
Whether Cav wants to hear what people think should be, in my opinion, up to Cav. I believe it's wrong to speak for what others want/think. JMHO.
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Quote:
Posting the thread here so that discussion can continue about the other MORE IMPORTANT subject. People can decide what they think of the HK vs. Me thing on their own, but I'd prefer not to hear the conclusions, and I'm sure HK feels the same way. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=53888
I would however appreciate it if people would stop accusing me of making shit up.
Wow, that was a sad thread. For several reasons. I don't think you were reacting to nothing there Byte, HK to me was clearly out of line - on some specifics as well as in his general tone. Having said that, hearing about his history, one can understand it. But most people in your position would have felt 'talked down to' and that they were being told to 'shut up'.
A general observation about HK:
1. He is liked and respected on this board, and for good reason. By me included.
2. He is quite loose with his impassioned moral judgement.
3. I don't know if he has a reverse gear. If he does, I don't think he uses it enough.
It's not personal. It's just war.
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"What a load of crap! Just like everyone else here, I respond to those I want to, when I want to. If you're not getting a response...well that's just too damn bad. Grow up."
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Folks may find the analogy to be OMG OVER-THE-TOP RIDONKULOUS but seems to me we've got a RWED model of the psychological origins of terrorism. In that light, Jongs' posting spree might be best understood as blowback. Jongs' and the folks on the right in general are considered to be deserving of whatever they get (rhetorically speaking, of course) because they're fundamentally bad people. Not unlike the prevailing attitude of our country toward the Muslim world. And just as we have obnoxious Americans claiming the moral high ground simply because our actions in the Middle East are "not as bad as the terrorists," we have folks here defending very obnoxious behavior because "Jongs is worse!"
There have been considerably fewer right leaning voices on this board than left for quite some time now. It's down to about 3, with a rotating forth position that's mostly vacant. With so few of them, their inferior weaponry (in this case, logic and evidence) becomes quite obvious to everyone here. So, in thread after thread, the left dominate with their Shock & Awe humiliation, over and over and over again. (Please note: I'm not saying that the righties on this board are sweet as pie, only that they are continually outgunned.) Jongsstraw and AURaptor are generally considered to be jokes by the left. And yet the lefties gleefully (rhetorically) carpet bomb them every chance they get. Some lefties never miss an opportunity to make the right feel small. Of course, you guys think it's all their own fault for not bringing sufficient logic and reason, but the fact remains that as people you're humiliating (or seeking to humiliate) them in a forever war of domination. The right are in a no-win situation on the board, and, at the present moment, a no-win situation in national politics.
So then what happens? Jongs becomes a social suicide bomber. And KPO starts a thread that amounts to "Why do they hate us?"
KPO, be assured, I will be thinking about your observation that I am too "loose" with my "impassioned moral judgment." My own (very self serving, to be sure) observation says I only get so upset rarely. But in the last year or more, my desire to post on the board has greatly decreased, so it tends to take me getting more upset to even posts, so you may have a very different perception of my presence here. I'll think about it and thank you for the feedback.
Sometimes I think I see deeply into a situation and the implications disturb me tremendously. So, I make my case, say my piece. Because to me, political realities always find their origins in individual psychology and conduct. "An eye for an eye" is an ultimately self-annihilating creed, whether it's folks trading insults on an internet forum, or folks trading gunfire in a war zone. The difference between Signy's mercilessness toward AURaptor and the mercilessness of our occupation of the Middle East seems to be a matter of degree rather than kind--a very huge degree, to be sure, but the two exist on a continuum. If we look deeply enough, the one may shed light on the other.
Ultimately, it seems to me that the board is only going to become more civil again if we ALL look inward and find it in our natures to be more kind and more inclusive, not more righteous and superior.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Just want to briefly reply - I'm not sure why SignyM gets tagged with this, since it's moi.
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Quote:Jongss and the people on the right deserve whatever they get because they started it. That might be a very kindergartenish way of looking at things, but the right wing started cranking up the crazy during Bill Clinton's Presidency, when the GOP courted the rightwing religious and tried to gin up "scandal" after "scandal" over all kinds of irrelvent stuff: Vince Foster, filegate, Monicagate, pardongate. Did you know that the GOP spent five times more money investigating Bill Clinton's cigar habits than they did investigating 9-11?
Jongs' and the folks on the right in general are considered to be deserving of whatever they get (rhetorically speaking, of course) because they're fundamentally bad people
So, how to respond? I've been the "reasonable talk" route with them and it doesn't work. And they wallow in controversy; it makes them feel like martyrs to the cause. For me, the best response is to ignore them. If other choose different routes-- oh well. Not effective in my view, but being nice and being reasonable does not make things better. But "they" could stop thsi in a heartbeat, if they so chose, by doing a fe simple things:
READING what other people post, instead of responding to some fantasy that Limbauhj, Beck, or whomever have planted in their heads
RESPONDING TO the actual posted thread with comments that are directly on-point.
This is a place for conversation, not to grab a megaphone and pass on the latest screed. If you are not able to CONVERSE... which includes listening... then you have no business being here. IMHO.
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I'd say it's the both of yous.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Hey Signy,
How is "because they started it" different from "because they're bad people?" After all, who would start such an unjust and malicious campaign but bad people? You judge them as people and hide behind correlation as if it's causality. The right, no doubt, would call their attack on Bill Clinton retaliation for something or other as well. Revenge is fundamentally a distortion of causality. It's bogus, no matter who gets into it.
You say ignoring them is the best policy. And I'd say that corresponds on the geopolitical stage with healthy isolationism. Let the right police themselves. They certainly don't pose an imminent threat to you or me, no? :)
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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HKC, I've already asked for a specifc explanation of your (plural) issues. On the off chnace that it got buried in the multiple posts, I'll ask for it again, but this is the last time. Outrage, no matter how deeply felt, is not an explanation. Tell me what your moral, legal, logical or experiential assumptions are behind your outrage. But it's RAPE! is not an explanation, because I will just counter with But it's GENOCIDE!. So there you have it. I'll wait for your reply, but may not be able to respond until next weekend.
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