Guns, Guns, Guns.

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Monday, June 30, 2025 05:56
VIEWED: 46757
PAGE 22 of 44

PREV PAGE 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 NEXT PAGE

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
we must be careful to uphold people's liberties while we figure out how to make such determinations.
On the other side of this equation, going cheap on NOT employing REAL PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE to watch monitors & respond to emergencies is a major problem IMO.
After 9-11, I would have expected an investment in this area, how stupidly wrong I was.
Again, all about saving costs to boost return.

Return our murdered children, you profit pigs.

Sorry; parent here.

Hello,

I'm a parent, too.

In a way, so is Frem. He's 'adopted' many and done more to help kids than I ever will.

I'm not sure I want to live in a 'security state' any more than I want to live in a 'police state.' I don't look forward to having myriad human eyes on myriad security cameras, watching everything I do. Nor do I crave actual humans guarding every 100 feet of public space.

That is such a broken, awful world to imagine.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, December 19, 2012 2:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

I'm not sure I want to live in a 'security state' any more than I want to live in a 'police state.' I don't look forward to having myriad human eyes on myriad security cameras, watching everything I do.

Tony, dude, I'm talking about schools- airports too. It's not a 'security state', just secure areas I'm talking. Am I wrong here in your opinion? Really... I kind of agree with you for the most part I believe.

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, December 19, 2012 2:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

I'm not sure I want to live in a 'security state' any more than I want to live in a 'police state.' I don't look forward to having myriad human eyes on myriad security cameras, watching everything I do.
Tony, dude, I'm talking about schools- airports too. It's not a 'security state', just secure areas I'm talking. Am I wrong here in your opinion? Really... I kind of agree with you for the most part I believe.

Hello,

The airports I've been to are teeming with security. Law enforcement officers, too.

Schools? Well, I have to be honest with you. I get a skeevy feeling thinking of a passel of security dudes watching kids on banks of monitors.

As for physical security... the schools in my area have actual law enforcement officers on site. Part of the response to school violence, I imagine. So I guess the trend just hasn't hit small towns, yet.

But yeah, I thought you wanted increased security everywhere. More cameras everywhere. More eyes everywhere.

It sounded creepy.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

M52NICKERSON

Wednesday, December 19, 2012 2:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

I think I illustrated pretty well that the term 'assault weapon' and 'based on assault weapon' is fairly meaningless, and that you probably need to create a criteria based on concrete features you consider dangerous, not the word 'assault weapon.'

Okay, how about any weapon that was designed to be the main weapon of a foot solider in combat? I think with some fringe exceptions everyone has a pretty good idea of what an assault rifle is.

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:I don't quite understand these limits. What inspired you to choose them? Do you realize that such a limit would outlaw several lever-action rifles from the late 19th century? Or did you intend the rifle limit to apply exclusively to semiautomatic rifles, and not manually actuated arms?

I thing you could make an exception for older lever action rifles. Why 5? It is far more than you need in a rifle to hunt or protect live stock.

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:Would the owner's estate be credited for the value of the arms in question? And would the owner be fully compensated if they elected to surrender the weapon early?

I don't know about fully but I think there can be some compensation.

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:What is the purpose of a permit? Given that safety courses and background checks are part of your plan, what is the permit designed to accomplish?

It would be serve much the same purpose as a drivers license. The permit could be required to purchase ammo and list each firearm owned. Plus it would be proof that a background check and safety course have been passed.

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:Would you be willing to limit access to the registry so that it could not be used except when investigating a crime with a court order?

No. The registry would also be crossed referenced with other data bases. So if your crazy uncle Leon moves in with you it should trigger a warning that someone with mental health problems now lives with you. At that point you should have to make a choice the guns move or Leon does. It should also work with individuals who have been convicted of violent crimes.

In the past I might have just called for locks, but I think we are past than now.

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:Is this license the aforementioned permit?

Yes.

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:Would you be willing to accommodate some training or safety course that would allow someone to obtain prohibited weapons and/or accessories? Or do you consider the prohibited weapons so inherently injurious to the public safety that they should not be allowed under any circumstances or exceptions?

I would, but they would be even stricter. I can see shooting Ranges being able to be certified and allow people to shoot normally prohibited weapons. Much like some do now. I think we should look and make sure their security is such that a single individual could not access those weapons and go on a spree. Or ensure all employees get training on recognizing potential warning signs.

I could also see individuals getting some restricted weapons if they go through an extensive process to do so. Perhaps even have to submit to psychological evaluations and inspections on how the weapons are secured.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, December 19, 2012 2:27 AM

Quote:
It would be serve much the same purpose as a drivers license. The permit could be required to purchase ammo and list each firearm owned. Plus it would be proof that a background check and safety course have been passed.

Hello,

I don't understand why people should see a list of all weapons I own. It is no business of the clerk at the store nor even an officer of the law unless I am charged with a crime. And in that case, these weapons are registered under your plan and could be looked up by a relevant authority.

In addition, you have specified a background check to be conducted for each purchase, so having a physical license declaring that I have passed a background check is of no value.

I may be able to understand the value of carrying proof of completion of a safety course. Unless you intend such information to be registered with the government as well, in which case why am I carrying a permit?

Quote:

No. The registry would also be crossed referenced with other data bases. So if your crazy uncle Leon moves in with you it should trigger a warning that someone with mental health problems now lives with you. At that point you should have to make a choice the guns move or Leon does. It should also work with individuals who have been convicted of violent crimes.

In the past I might have just called for locks, but I think we are past than now.

I firmly disagree with all of this. You are advocating tracking the movement of citizens, now. This is invasive and abusive and you completely lose me here. No agreement.

This sort of thing is why people like me get nervous when the government collects information about its citizens. If you can't guarantee the sanctity of that information, why should anyone agree to hand it over?

This is a bridge too far.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, December 19, 2012 2:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I can see shooting Ranges being able to be certified and allow people to shoot normally prohibited weapons.

Kind of like allowing people to smoke outdoors?

An addiction?

M52NICKERSON

Wednesday, December 19, 2012 2:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
I don't understand why people should see a list of all weapons I own. It is no business of the clerk at the store nor even an officer of the law unless I am charged with a crime. And in that case, these weapons are registered under your plan and could be looked up by a relevant authority.

It is because it would signify ammo you could purchase and it would allow officers to make sure any weapons in your possession are registered to you. This is not far fetched as with just your name I can look up what vehicles you have registered now and in the past.

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:In addition, you have specified a background check to be conducted for each purchase, so having a physical license declaring that I have passed a background check is of no value.

No, in fact once you pass the check all you would need is your permit to purchase a new firearm. It would make things easier. Of course you do something to get your permit revoked and then you have issues.

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:I may be able to understand the value of carrying proof of completion of a safety course. Unless you intend such information to be registered with the government as well, in which case why am I carrying a permit?

For the same reasons you carry your drivers license which is also registered. Right now in most states you need a permit to carry or own a pistol so this is not far out.

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:I firmly disagree with all of this. You are advocating tracking the movement of citizens, now. This is invasive and abusive and you completely lose me here. No agreement.

This sort of thing is why people like me get nervous when the government collects information about its citizens. If you can't guarantee the sanctity of that information, why should anyone agree to hand it over?

This is a bridge too far.

Don't want to be tracked, don't buy a gun. Many state already do some of this if you have a pistol and the permit to go with it.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, December 19, 2012 2:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

I don't understand why people should see a list of all weapons I own.

Hey Tony, welcome to big brother. We have to have car insurance, now we have to have health insurance, is gun insurance a stretch?

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, December 19, 2012 2:59 AM

Quote:
It is because it would signify ammo you could purchase and it would allow officers to make sure any weapons in your possession are registered to you. This is not far fetched as with just your name I can look up what vehicles you have registered now and in the past.

Hello,

This makes no sense to me. Any registered firearms are registered, so the firearms can be checked to be sure they belong to me if they surface in connection to a crime. I need no permit for this.

If there is going to be a check conducted at the time of purchase, then the clerk needs no permit and certainly no list of my weapons. He is checking to see if I can buy 500 rounds of .380 ACP. The answer is Yes or No. I need no permit for this, and certainly no permit that lists my firearms.

Quote:
No, in fact once you pass the check all you would need is your permit to purchase a new firearm. It would make things easier. Of course you do something to get your permit revoked and then you have issues.

Oh... I see you are proposing a system that is in some ways less secure than the present one. Nobody ever checks to see if the permit is valid. Nobody will ever know if my permit is revoked because they are not doing checks. Carry on.

Quote:
For the same reasons you carry your drivers license which is also registered. Right now in most states you need a permit to carry or own a pistol so this is not far out.

In most states you don't need a permit to own a pistol. That is rare. You keep insisting on this permit and it is not only unnecessary but it is a bad idea.

Quote:
Don't want to be tracked, don't buy a gun.

Or better yet, reject this terrible proposal. Tracking gun owners and people diagnosed with mental health issues, seeing who is living with whom, subtracting rights when the wrong people live together...

I think you're better off just suspending one or more Constitutional amendments. This stuff is all terrible. Just Terrible.

I can not find common ground with you on this issue if this is what you think is valid and just.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

SIGNYM

Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:28 AM

Tony, you once again fail to find common ground with a lot of thoughtful, reasonable people. That should give you pause to question why you find yourself on one end of the spectrum with rappy, wulf, hero, and other incomprehensible people. Not the first time, either. The last time, you left for a long, long while after a particularly prolonged pro-gun rant. (Yes, it was a rant.)

And I have to wonder why it is that you cannot set aside your terrible paranoia long enough to comprehend that the parents of these dead children are now even more distraught than you, and that you in some way have placed your fear and your imaginary revolution above the pain that these people feel now, and will continue to feel for years to come. What a terrible place to be, where you can't set aside your own concerns long enough to step into someone else's shoes for even a moment.

I'm not saying that you're wrong or that you're right, but your emotions are driving your thinking into such an unbalanced state that I do not believe you can be rational (rational: to ratio, to measure one against the other) on this topic.

PREV PAGE 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 NEXT PAGE