Guns, Guns, Guns.
POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Monday, June 30, 2025 05:56
VIEWED: 46757
PAGE 16 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
BUT THAT ***IS*** HIS ARGUMENT.
His argument IS that people will SAY their intentions are well-meaning when they aren't.
But the situations are not at all equivalent. The 'problem' of voter fraud was non-existent - at best nebulous if you gave EVERY benefit of the doubt.
The problem of gun violence is real. It's obvious. It's brutal. it's heartbreaking. It is a REAL EVIDENT PROBLEM. To treat it like it's JUST LIKE voter fraud is an act of extreme dishonestly, cruelty, insanity. To try to make it an argument is worse.
And he seems to think that we are too stupid and too ignorant to understand the facts. That somehow if he's sly enough, subtle enough, we'll be sucked in to the argument that indeed, gun violence is JUST LIKE voter fraud and therefore the solutions to gun violence are JUST AS BAD as the ones to voter fraud.
Make no mistake - that IS his argument.
Anthony is aware voter fraud is not a real issue. His argument is more about denying the poor the right to vote versus what he sees as an equivalent issue: denying gun owners the right to own guns.
His comments of shock that there isn't voter fraud was intended as a joke. Taking the side of pro-voter ID people was am attempt at highlighting anti gun control arguments.
And votes do kill people, though indirectly. Honestly the better argument was comparing with abortion, as that is more directly about life, death, and choice.
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Quote:
Honestly the better argument was comparing with abortion, as that is more directly about life, death, and choice.
Hello,
I tried that, but apparently some people don't actually want complete control over their own bodies, so the argument had nowhere to go.
Nobody was more surprised than I.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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Cav,
No idea why you have taken such umbridge at what I have said. Why you have taken such a combatative stance really suprises and confuses me.
You do know I want our respective countries to be filled with more empathic individuals, that I support parenting, education and institutions which foster empathy. It seems to me that you think I am saying something different that has caused some sort of out of proportion outrage response.
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Byte
I got that hours ago. All you're doing is reinforcing in my mind what as asshole he is. He equates the solution to a non-existent problem as being JUST LIKE the solution to a real problem. He's equating the the mendacity of the voter-ID folk with the heartbreak of the parents of those children. He's trivializing the real problem, negating the real grief, invalidating the real people who are living through this. And you think that's OK. That it's just a matter of explaining it, and that will make it good.
They are not the same. They will never be the same. No explanation will make them then same. One is a non-existent problem. The other is a crisis of violence and needless death.
He is an enabler of violence. Frem is an enabler of violence. Geezer is an enabler of violence. Anyone who can observe the situation and want to keep things EXACTLY THE SAME in order to allow EXACTLY THE SAME VIOLENCE is a supporter of violence.
Obviously there is something far more important to them than stooping gun violence and gun death. What that is is personal. They value their personal itches over their personal topics more than they value the life of others. I got that. That is what they are.
As for control over one's body, what AnthonyT doesn't seem to realize is that my freedom ends at his nose - or the nose of someone else. I am fine with the idea of people being able to freely ingest whatever drugs they want. I'm not fine with them getting on the road and killing someone else. I am fine with the idea of abortion. I'm not fine with the idea killing a viable fetus at a whim as an expression of my ability to do whatever I want with my body.
HKC was right so long ago. He pointed out that AnthonyT's absolutism was a psychological problem. I think we're seeing it play out.
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"The bigger the gun, the smaller the pecker." .... Sigsauer Freud
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Quote:
Anyone who can observe the situation and want to keep things EXACTLY THE SAME
Hello,
I think this is what they call a straw man. That is, creating an argument that was never made, and pointing it out as rediculous.
I'd like to see a lot of things change. So would Frem.
But I don't see the types of firearms available as the problem that is so desperately in need of change.
Quote:
Obviously there is something far more important to them than stooping gun violence and gun death.
I think you mean stopping gun violence and death.
That's true.
Like creating a society that cares for its people and tries to help them, so that violence and murder are less likely to happen. Period.
Quote:
As for control over one's body, what AnthonyT doesn't seem to realize is that my freedom ends at his nose
Ah, that's precisely where I measure the end of your freedoms. But you want the intrusion to be just a bit further in.
Quote:
He pointed out that AnthonyT's absolutism was a psychological problem. I think we're seeing it play out.
I'm fairly sure we all saw some psychological problems play themselves out this evening. But I don't think the things I consider a problem are the things you consider a problem.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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Quote:We don't support violence you moron! Someone seriously needs to kick your ass.
Originally posted by 1kiki:
He is an enabler of violence. Frem is an enabler of violence. Geezer is an enabler of violence. Anyone who can observe the situation and want to keep things EXACTLY THE SAME in order to allow EXACTLY THE SAME VIOLENCE is a supporter of violence.
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OOOoohhh look! He's still digging!
BTW, love the edit job and his inability to respond to a complete argument.
ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!
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I'm sorry, Magons, I've been trying to make what I'm outraged about clear to you. That you do not identify with what I'm outraged about is excellent news to me. I was trying to make my understanding of what you'd said as clear as I could so you would know what I was upset about. You seemed to not understand my objection so I attempted to clarify. Your last post to me was WTF and I was trying to clarify the W. I am not upset at you.
I am upset about what I see as a societal trance that believes we're essentially violent creatures. That idea makes me plenty angry because my life has been a living example of how a person with an extraordinarily violent upbringing can find the essential goodness in himself and in our species as a whole. I promise you, no one was there to teach me empathy, quite the contrary. Sometimes I really wonder how I was able to find empathy and compassion at all. But I did. So, I can, from time to time, feel obligated to speak my mind on the topic. I don't think my response to that lie about human nature is out of proportion, but I absolutely understand if you didn't understand WTF I was talking about or how I got there from what you said. It happens.
I'm very confused by this whole thread. I have never seen so much talking past one other in a single thread as in this one. I've brought up, jeez, a dozen or more points that, y'know, I thought bear discussion, but I've gotten pretty much zero actual discussion from anyone (Frem and I did accomplished an exchange at one point, but it was quickly lost in the shuffle). I'm not seeing much discussion at all, except between Bytemite and Geezer, really.
At this point I get the feeling that Frem and Anthony are just too scared, really, to allow themselves even to think like the folks they're arguing with. Everyone else in this thread seems to represent a tremendous threat to their well-being. They act as if, and I get the feeling they truly believe that their lives are being threatened by even discussing gun regulation. I mean, if I saw the world as they seem to do, I don't know how I could avoid being very frightened of what folk have been talking about this weekend. It's the 2012 apocalypse for gun ownership!
At the same time, Frem has endorsed such regulation himself, so I dunno. I don't get it.
And the consequence for Anthony of his fear-based argument is that he treats kiki about as poorly as I've seen him treat anyone. It's shocking.
Anthony, that was a serious dick move on your part. Not clever. Not appropriate. To presume that she was too dumb to know exactly what you were doing and to persist in your nasty joke, not cool. And that dig about abortion, coming from my fellow XY, not cool, man! Not remotely. And jeez, it so did not win her over or serve your argument at all, did it? What do you think you're doing? Anthony, you got a style, y'know? And for the most part it works. Charming, funny, enlightening. But when you get into a particularly heated exchange with someone all it sounds like is snide, snide, snide.
So anyway, Magons, I'm sorry I've contributed to any confusion. My intention was to clarify.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
OOOoohhh look! He's still digging!
BTW, love the edit job and his inability to respond to a complete argument.
ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!
Hello,
Your argument is summed up by the statement:
"Your solution to the problem of gun violence is different than my solution to the problem of gun violence. Hence, you wish to do nothing and are an enabler of violence."
Oh, and also,
"Your perception of freedom is different from my perception of freedom, therefore you have a psychological problem."
With presumably some personal insults thrown in for good measure.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME