16% of US science teachers are creationists
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 13:00
VIEWED: 11650
PAGE 8 of 11
Actually, NewOld, that's an excellent question! Of course, given this is a "Christian nation", the creationists would dismiss such a concept, but wouldn't it be fun to compare some of the other religions' beliefs...it would certainly show how ridiculous they ALL are, no offense intended to any creationists.
For example, one of the Hindu beliefs is thatitstarted with the sacrifice of the primal man, named Purusa. His body was the entire universe. The lower quarter of his body became the earth; the rest became the heavens. The various castes of humans came from parts of Purusa's body: his arms became the warriors; his legs the commoners, and his feet the serfs.
As to Buddhism, it's a long and complex explanation, but the simple version is that our world is created by awareness - the awareness of the beings that inhabit it. Evolution only gives a kind of history of how that illusion unfolds. (For the longer version: "The Buddhist view is that everything emanates from the Primordial expanse of Openness Clarity Sensitivity and is illusionlike- never really coming into existence, but the illusion is created by infinite intricate connections that are not anywhere and not in time. Time and space are part of the illusion that is emanating from that Primordial expanse". See what I mean?) There are others who believe in a kalpa ("cycle") of beginning; by beings who populated the universe in the previous kalpa are reborn; eventually, the universe dissolves; all living creatures return to the soul life, and the cycle repeats.
Even more interesting, there are differences WITHIN THE CHRISTIAN FAITH! Evangelicals and Catholics, of course, believe in Creationism. Yet Roman Catholic parochial schools have taught the theory of evolution as a probable fact for many decades. Some Protestan denominations have theistic evolution (a.k.a. called "process creation", or "multiple creation".) In this belief system, God originally created the universe. Later, God used evolution as the technique by which new species develop (is that "Intelligent Design?"). Mormons are straight Creationists (Bruce R. McConkie asked how could a Mormon obtain "comfort in the theoretical postulates that mortal life began in the scum of the sea..."). So in fairness we should be teaching ALL of those, even if only Christianity is accepted.
Quite a conundrum, if it were a matter of logic. Of course, it's anything BUT that...
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Hello,
As a Christian, I have always found the usual creationist myth to be so limiting and inconsistent. It's much better to imagine it as a loose metaphor designed to impart some kind of idea rather than a literal description of creation.
I much prefer to imagine God as a 'thing' that existed before linear time was a concept, who expanded himself into a universe- creating the laws of physics as we understand them in the very process of his expansion. An entity outside of linear time, he could see and understand the progress of each particle or unit of energy throughout its entire lifecycle, and direct his expansion so precisely as to become the universe he wanted to see. Including all the particles that became Earth and all those particles and processes that became life and all the life that became humans. And because he existed outside of linear time he knows the past and the future as colors on a painting- And because he expanded himself to make the universe, he is everywhere. And in everyone.
The planned expansion may have included the eventual manifestation of entities that would contain a piece of his awareness, be able to examine the world from a different perspective, and communicate his favored concepts and ideas to the rest of himself. Prophets, sons of God, miraculous manifestations of power.
Well, that's how I imagine things. Needless to say I interpret the Bible rather loosely and non-literally. Evolution to me isn't a contradiction of God, but rather a damn impressive example of his power. That he can push a domino at the dawn of time- in a place before time- and have everything fall the way he needed it to fall to create the universe he wanted to manifest.
This is what I imagine when I read, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz
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Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I don't understand how people live in this kind of denial. Perhaps they just don't let themselves think about it.
Here is an interesting article called "The Science of Why We Don't Believe Science" that I think a few folks here might enjoy: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-moone
y
What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.
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Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
This reminds me of a long ago conversation on RWED about evolution, and I'm still bummed that a particular religious poster left in the middle of it. We got to the point where I asked how he explained all those fossils in museums around the world, like the fossils that show gradual changes as a species evolves. I still really want to know where he thinks those come from. Does he think that scientists sit in their basements, making bones out of paper mache? How else can he explain their existence, if he thinks evolution is completely false?
I don't understand how people live in this kind of denial. Perhaps they just don't let themselves think about it. Maybe that's part of why this poster left - he just couldn't let himself think about that question too deeply.
That was AntiMason, wasn't it? Yeah, that guy was a gem. And not the kind that's created over millions of years by heat and pressure, either. ;)
What really boggles my mind is how many of those creationists and young earthers are in the oil business. Where exactly do they think all that oil came from? Is it just God's Miracle Juice™? Do they imagine that their god just miracled that shit into the ground to make them rich?
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy
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Fascinating article PR, u think they used RWED as a test study?
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Here is an interesting article called "The Science of Why We Don't Believe Science" that I think a few folks here might enjoy: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-moone
y
Good article, PR. for those who don't want to read the whole thing, here's a tidbit from page 1.
It's a "basic human survival skill," explains political scientist Arthur Lupia of the University of Michigan. We push threatening information away; we pull friendly information close. We apply fight-or-flight reflexes not only to predators, but to data itself.
We're not driven only by emotions, of course—we also reason, deliberate. But reasoning comes later, works slower—and even then, it doesn't take place in an emotional vacuum. Rather, our quick-fire emotions can set us on a course of thinking that's highly biased, especially on topics we care a great deal about.
Consider a person who has heard about a scientific discovery that deeply challenges her belief in divine creation—a new hominid, say, that confirms our evolutionary origins. What happens next, explains political scientist Charles Taber of Stony Brook University, is a subconscious negative response to the new information—and that response, in turn, guides the type of memories and associations formed in the conscious mind. "They retrieve thoughts that are consistent with their previous beliefs," says Taber, "and that will lead them to build an argument and challenge what they're hearing."
I have to say, this is bang-on what I've observed. So maybe I'm emotionally pre-determined to accept it.
Off to read the rest...
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Quote:You're right - antimason was the center of that particular debate. I remember now that he brought up the same anti-evolution lame arguments a year or so later, and when I linked to the old thread and the old questions he promptly disappeared again. Go figure!
Originally posted by Kwicko:
That was AntiMason, wasn't it? Yeah, that guy was a gem. And not the kind that's created over millions of years by heat and pressure, either. ;)
But I was actually feeling sad about Causal leaving. Nice, rational, interesting person. And yet, when God came up for discussion and wasn't treated as a worship-worthy truth, but a theory to be questioned, this big emotional wall came up. He could not handle the questions that were asked, so he left.
I've come to realize my own bias on the matter: I view most religion as indoctrination. Not the kind of thing Anthony posted above, which I think is a lovely way to view the universe (though it's not my own take.) It's nice that it's uplifting, but leaves him open to questions and new ideas. The bad type of religious training gives itself away quickly: can it handle being challenged? Or does that emotional denial come up?
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Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Six: Reality is what we observe. What we REALLY observe, not the few strange little twisted trickles that manage to seep through that seriously self-focused filter you've got wrapped around your head. I mean, really? Yet another rant about your trials? Sorry, your troubles have no bearing on what defines science, and moves this conversation exactly no where. What is the point of trying to talk reality with you when all you see is "ME ME ME ME ME"?
Do you read your posts? I admit, I don't get through them anymore. I gave up after one of your Obama rants a few weeks ago that started with one half-assed misrepresented bit of news then spiraled into a bitter exposition of your deep hated. Basically, you were saying that Obama is bad because you hate him so much. (Probably, posts like that, and the above, are what happens when you're in your cups.)
This isn't 4 years of this BS... but 12 years of it.
I posted just as much about how I HATED GWB as well.... get over yourself about that.
I could be completely sober and say that Obama was our worst president ever, and GWB is a very close second.....
The only reason Jimmy Carter comes in as third is because he never had the balls to be the Wendys that overthrew Burger King.....
I hate Obama
I hate GWB
If I wasn't shitting diapers when I was born, I would say the same about Carter.....
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Quote:
Yup, that's pretty much how I view organized religion, as a way to blindly accept what one is told without having to think about it and face the possible dichotomies. And yup,
Perhaps they just don't let themselves think about it.Quote:
That's what indoctrination is, brainwashing people into accepting whatever they're "fed".
I view most religion as indoctrination
I pretty much share your feelings about Six; I rarely read his posts anymore. Too much over-the-top craziness, repeated personal exposition of how he's so great, and blind hatred, not worth my time. Aside from which, given how little we see of Raptor lately, I can't help wondering...
Also, excellent article Rose, thank you. The excerpts Mal4 put up pretty much embody the pertinent statements, and yes, that's what I've observed as well.
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Dude Niki, I totally know where you come from...
Jack is totally out of line fucking his ass with a Romeney crucifix daily because he's a mindless REAGANot....
Seriouslly Niki....
You just don't read my posts because I don't read your BS woman's lib posts by some strap-on;vibrator wearing self-plea surer diatribes as your own words....
If you have words to say to me, I'll read them, as I always do. Forgive me for not reading 3 pages of your bullshit, 3rd party, meaningless, feminist quotes.
Don't put the end of this thread on me....
Put it on whatever mindless, man hating, lesbians you're posting from....
I think you're smarter than that....
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:Quote:Yup, that's pretty much how I view organized religion, as a way to blindly accept what one is told without having to think about it and face the possible dichotomies. And yup,
Perhaps they just don't let themselves think about it.Quote:That's what indoctrination is, brainwashing people into accepting whatever they're "fed".
I view most religion as indoctrination
I pretty much share your feelings about Six; I rarely read his posts anymore. Too much over-the-top craziness, repeated personal exposition of how he's so great, and blind hatred, not worth my time. Aside from which, given how little we see of Raptor lately, I can't help wondering...
Also, excellent article Rose, thank you. The excerpts Mal4 put up pretty much embody the pertinent statements, and yes, that's what I've observed as well.
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