16% of US science teachers are creationists

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 13:00
VIEWED: 11650
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Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
What makes any "theory" more important than the other?

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*sigh*

A theory is a scientific model, based upon solid evidence, and agreed to be generally correct by a community of researchers who are experts in the field. Theories can be expanded upon or updated, but many of them are very close to being scientific law (example: the Theory of Gravity has been updated to the Law of Gravity, because a metric shit-ton of empirical evidence has shown that, yes, gravity always works like that, and there are equations that describe the behavior of objects interacting with gravity accurately every time they are run. Equations can't really describe evolution, so it may never become a scientific law; but it's not far from one is the point I'm making.) What makes the theory of evolution/natural selection "more important" is that it is actually a theory. It has been observed, repeatedly, by several research groups, in the laboratory and the field. Bacteria go through several generations in the space of a week, and can be observed adapting and evolving by anyone with a petri dish and a microscope. The famed fruit flies are the same way, and you don't even need the petri dish or microscope.
Contrast "intelligent design," which is not a model based on testing or observation, has never been peer reviewed, in fact cannot be peer reviewed, is not agreed to be generally correct by experts in the field of biology, and basically does not fit the actual definition of the word theory. In scientific terms, it is a postulation, at best, and will never be more than that because testing and observation are not possible. Therefore, as the courts have ruled, it is not science and should not be taught in the context of science class.


What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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I'm not arguing gravity, and good for it being upgraded to "law" status....

If I fall off a 500 foot cliff, the "law" of gravity dictates that 9 times out of 10 it will kill me.

Disproof of God or Proof of God will never reach that conclusion....

I don't care how many brilliant scientists, whether they're in the 19% or not have a go at it....



It's an unwinnable argument

I'd hate being a student being taught either one of those unproved "theories" as fact on tax payer dollars.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Remember how you said Carter raised taxes ? It's here: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=52174

Care to discuss how you were really, really wrong on that?

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No, psycho, I don't remember saying that, because I never did. I said he TRIED high taxes. Which he did. And for that, I wasn't wrong.

Now, kindly go frack yourself.

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Sure, sure ... Nixon and Ford raised them but DIDN’T 'try' high taxes. And Carter who LOWERED them, did 'try' high taxes. That's why you're so fun to laugh at. You and your RapFacts™

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'd hate being a student being taught either one of those unproved "theories" as fact on tax payer dollars.

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*sigh*



I will attempt to simplify what I said, since you clearly did not understand it.

Theory = proof exists

Religion = no proof exists

Therefore, religion cannot= theory.

Following that:
Intelligent design = religion, and religion cannot= theory

Therefore, intelligent design is not a theory.






BTW:

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If I fall off a 500 foot cliff, the "law" of gravity dictates that 9 times out of 10 it will kill me.

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No, it doesn't. Really, it doesn't dictate anything. It reflects the simple fact that you will fall, and describes how rapidly you will accelerate towards the ground.
There is nothing in the law of gravity describing its lethality to you or any organism. The lethality of a fall is determined by other factors; gravity just makes the falling possible, and the scientific laws describing the behavior of objects falling due to gravity... they are not like legal terms. They do not "dictate" anything, but rather describe known phenomena. This isn't something that someone came up with and said, "This is the law, now." This is something that decades of observation, measurements, and calculation led to the construction of, and because it was always accurate through thousands of tests, it is referred to in science as a law.
I can't stress this enough: Scientific laws are not abstract rules for behavior, they are descriptions of reality, arrived at through exhaustive testing and observation by multiple parties. Scientific theories are, in essence, the same thing, but may be missing mathematical formulas in their descriptions of reality, or may be adding detail as more testing is done. Something as huge and varied as evolution is a theory because testing of all its possibilities would take more time and resources than we will likely ever have, and also because we don't have time machines to go back and examine all the details of how every species evolved. None of this invalidates it as a scientific model that describes known, observed phenomena. "Intelligent design" is not such a model and it should not be taught as such.



What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Remember how you said Carter raised taxes ? It's here: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=52174

Care to discuss how you were really, really wrong on that?

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No, psycho, I don't remember saying that, because I never did. I said he TRIED high taxes. Which he did. And for that, I wasn't wrong.

Now, kindly go frack yourself.

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Sure, sure ... Nixon and Ford raised them but DIDN’T 'try' high taxes. And Carter who LOWERED them, did 'try' high taxes. That's why you're so fun to laugh at. You and your RapFacts™

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Girls! Girls! You're both pretty. Can we stay on subject, here? Why don't you two start your own thread so you can argue? The rest of us will just check in from time to time to see how it's going.

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Hi Mal4, missed-cha! Interesting to hear Six didn't used to be so angry/crazy...I think I only met him this time around.

As to folks reading and understanding, as we've discussed before, it doesn't WORK that way. Religious types would of course come up with "Yes, God can't be proven, that's the whole point of faith" or else "...but the Bible says..." or somesuch thing. It's not about reading and understanding, it's about, first off, actually raeding, and second, being willing to even conceive of the possibility.

And not only do some want creationism taught in science class--the LAST place it belongs, but in some cases they want it taught INSTEAD of evolution, which I find...well, there are no words! There's nothing wrong with teaching "intelligent design"--or whatever--but also the idea that it's being taught in SCIENCE class! Whtever their argument in favor of it is, exactly what Rose explained is why it has no business whatsoever being in a class about science, obviously.

Thanx for finding out which countries were involved in that study--between my eyesight (and yes, I did enlarge it) and time, I didn't bother. I do wonder how/why those were picked, as opposed to some others you mentioned. Surely Germany would have been relevant, and unquestionably the Nordic countries...

It's just another sign of the dumbing-down of America, to me--yet another thing I never thought I'd see in my lifetime.

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