Real World Event Discussions

The Talk.

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Friday, April 13, 2012 00:04
VIEWED: 8856
PAGE 7 of 12

KWICKO

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 4:54 AM

Oh, and we may have to have a group hug here pretty soon, the way things are going.

(If you can't tell, THAT'S A JOKE! And it's even more appropriate because it's just the kind of hippie-dippy liberal thing that Wulfie absolutely loathes and detests, which of course makes it AWESOME!)

RIONAEIRE

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 4:57 AM

I know what you mean about Raptor vs. Wulf Niki, Raptor, politically opinionated as he may be, somehow seems more anocuous than Wulf, especially lately. He does what he does because he enjoys the back and forth and being contrarian, and because he feels he's correct, and his insults are rather benign compared to Wulf, who can be really mean. I think that if I met Raptor in real life we'd actually get along pretty good, even though there's a lot we disagree on. With Wulf I honestly don't know, I think we could make it work though, because I see some good in him and I can tell he wants to be nice, he just doesn't seem to know how to.

Which meannesses to allow: Well I don't have the ability to allow or disallow anything, so I guess I never thought about it. Irrelevent insults don't sit well with me. Insults related to the topic at hand don't seem so bad though, its actually kind of funny when people get mad at me because its just like "huh?", honestly even nasty and irrelevent insults sort of make me chuckle because I'm like "Where did that come from? ... wow". But of course no one likes to be insulted, especially in irrelevent ways. It really says more about the person doing it than the person being insulted. When I insult I try to keep it relevent, at least pertaining to the general topic if not directly related, a little creative license isn't so bad, but when it gets way out there its like yowsa.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

NIKI2

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:01 AM

Okay, Mike, I better understand. If you too have seen some valid concern then I must be doing something subconsciously, I'll think on that and try to be more aware. It wasn't something conscious, and "championing" wasn't meant as a confrontational word; I was thinking back to our being called mean and, given the attack was specifically on me, thinking more like "See? See why we don't like him?" Maybe there was a sense of victimization there or resentment that they have given him the benefit of the doubt, when to me Wulf never gives ANYONE the benefit of the doubt, ever, unless they agree with him.

I can understand getting something out in the open, that I definitely agree with and maybe the three of us should communicate in e-mail or something if we need to; I'm going to respond to Byte's last post and if we need to work more out, maybe we can take it to e-mail. We've kind of gotten a long ways off the original topic here. To me it was the WAY she got it in the open, it "felt" pretty attacking, disproportionate, and out of the blue. For you to say it was well said, when she had made some pretty harsh judgments of things I felt she was misunderstanding in the first place, was strange to me. I understand somewhat better where you were coming from. Respectfully, I still disagree about HOW it was done.

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:22 AM

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There's no reason for me not to like you, and as I've said before, I don't TRUST anyone on the internet, I never know who anyone is.

That's entirely fair, and also not too far from the alternative that I thought might be going on. Only, perhaps, you probably phrased that a little more tactfully than I did.

so... it's in my head. I just need to take a deep breath. That's a far easier issue to deal with. I hope. My internal mindscape is not always all that cooperative, but I can try to wrangle it into behaving if I start getting seriously way too overdramatic again. That's something I can control once I know what it is. Most times... sometimes... warg. I have no idea if I ever successfully manage that or not. But I can try. It's that or give up, and I guess lately I've been taking the lazy way out.

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I think, after cogitating on it a bit, that there might have been some unconscious RESENTMENT toward you and Riona for your defense of Wulf, in fact seeing it in print, I'm pretty sure of it.

I was really more defending Riona in that case... However, I suppose I was being nice about Wulf becoming a firefighter, as I did think that is an admirable accomplishment, even though the way he announced it... Well, I guess I can't talk, I've done about a fat load of nothing with my life. But a lot of you guys have. I know that Wulf thinks he's right all the time and it doesn't ingratiate himself to anyone, but I ignore it not because I think he's fine saying it to you all, but more because what can I say back, what did he say about me that wasn't true?

Anyway, I got provoked there because of what Wishimay said to Riona. I guess I felt like I'd been sincerely sorry, but then it seemed like the fight hadn't ended after all, and so I went right back into attacking you. I wasn't able to separate out the one thread from the other, I thought there was a connection. And then I've been continuing to think there was a connection everytime there was a disagreement, and even directed it unfairly at other members of the board. Yeah, I've been letting the wound fester, for no good reason.

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:30 AM

Sorry Niki. You're right, it was blunt and direct, perhaps too much so. I don't think I meant this time for it to be particularly attacking, more I was just frustrated and tired about fighting a battle that, as it turns out, I was the only one fighting.

So I guess at the time I felt like, well, avoiding it just because I'm not sure what's going on hasn't worked, it's time to be direct and ask.

You're probably also right that this would have been better suited to PMs. You know, it used to be that I wasn't such a drama queen, I could actually let things go, and I didn't air issues in public. At some point in the past I started talking and couldn't make myself shut up any more. There's been many times I've wished I could find that place again. Maybe eventually I will, and be a better and more cool-headed person as a result.

NIKI2

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:32 AM

Oh, shit, look at all the new posts. It's 10:00 and I haven't even eaten dinner yet, this has to stop. So briefly (as briefly as I am capable!), then I'm outta here:

Mike, it's waaaay late but you get the prize for the first giggle of the day. The group hug. I love it.

Thank you for reminding me of Kane's name. I have a Word doc where I write down things now and then (hoo, BOY, you should see the "library" on Kane!) and glanced through it to remind me of who he was, but if I hadn't, you'd have reminded me of it.

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I don't blame Wulfie for what happened to him. I blame him for how he deals with it, what he does with it, and how he chooses to use it or move forward in his life. What happened to him was the fault of others beyond his control; what he does with it is completely up to him.

All of us have baggage. Some of us have decided to enjoy the trip.

That about sums it up for me.

Byte: Yes, obviously I was unclear; I was referring to recently when we were chastised for being unkind to Wulf. "Championing" is different from "agreeing with" to me, obviously that's not so for others. I never thought or meant to say that ANYONE agreed with him about race!

I would honestly like examples of when I've "called" you or Riona "out". I'm unaware of them. I'm aware of disagreeing with people, but aside from the time Kiki mentioned passive-aggressiveness, I'm not aware that I've called you out. So if you can remember any specifics, I would be grateful. Seriously; we never learn what we do unconsciously if we never get to see it, and I've not intentionally called you out that I'm aware of.

For clarification purposes: You don't bother me. I like you. We disagree at times. End of story. 'kay?

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or that I am against the rest of you and support his attitude towards you.

Mmmm, you may have hit on something there. That may be some of what's happening to me, that I feel like from things you've said that you view Wulf as the victim. I'm still trying to sort all this out and no doubt will be for a while, but that hits home, so there must be something to it.

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maybe that is just to get a rise out of people, because Wulf loves to fight

In the aforementioned document, I've noted periodic things said by people, and you might find this pertinent:

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"Do you TRY for Epic Fail, Wulfie - or does it just come natural to you?"

I DO try. Its amusing to watch people foam at the mouth.

Dunno who asked the question, but unless he was joking, there's your answer.

Riona: Yeah, I've kind of noticed that Raptor seems to have taken the edge off lately; I thought maybe it was my imagination. Just the personally-attacking stuff, and it's just a perception, dunno if it's intentional or not. If it's intentional, I certainly appreciate it!

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I don't have the ability to allow or disallow anything

Obviously none of us do. But that's kind of a dichotomy; wasn't it you who said you weren't going to stand for this or that to someone else where Wulf was concerned? You wrote what seemed like a deliberate threat at the time, something about how you'd go after someone if they did it again...I forget the specifics, but I remember that because I remember thinking "wow, that's a threat, and who has the right to judge and threaten here?" So saying you can't allow or disallow seems like the opposite of what you said then.

For ME, it's not a matter of allowing or disallowing, it's a matter of how I will treat the person in future. Someone writes what Wulf did (and has before) is someone I will show NO respect to in future, sans an apology or effort to make it right (which neither I nor anyone else will EVER get from Wulf!). It's a matter of "you crossed a line, I owe you no respect from

NIKI2

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:43 AM

Aughhh! Just teasing, Byte...I just put that last one up and saw your new ones. I think the only thing I'd say in response is obviously it's NOT just in your head, if Mike saw something too, there's got to have been something subconscious in MY head, right? I'll try to be more aware of it, and just for myself, spend some time trying to figure out where the hell it comes from. I don't it to be like that.

And no need to apologize; now we've worked it out I can easily re-read it and see the tiredness and frustration. If you feel something like this coming from me in future, couldja tell me about it--if you don't have my e-mail, Riona does and can give it to you. I don't want stuff building up, in me or anyone else (except those we obviously can't stop from doing it, who will spew it all over the board [/snark]).

And hey, you're not allowed to call yourself a drama queen...that's us bipolars. ;o) You can be something else...hypersensitive if you want (that's actually a good AND bad thing, 'cuz it makes you more sensitive to people's feelings, eh?). But we're the drama queens--I THINK I'm less so now, because I know how I USED to be!

Now I am absolutely, positively OUTTA HERE! Good wishes to all...well, mostly all...

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:53 AM

Quote:
What happened to him was the fault of others beyond his control; what he does with it is completely up to him.

Hello,

Personal responsibility. The mantra of the Wulf.

Reasons to talk to someone:

1) They are interesting.

2) They can educate you.

3) They create love.

4) You can teach them.

5) You have love to give them.

Reasons not to talk to someone:

1) You can't reach them in any way.

2) But they can hurt you or someone you care about.

I have run out of reasons to talk to some people here. I am terrible at remembering that fact. My recent signature line was created to remind me why, and to help me disengage. When I find myself responding, getting sucked in... there it is. Reminding me.

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Thank you for reminding me of Kane's name. I have a Word doc where I write down things now and then (hoo, BOY, you should see the "library" on Kane!)

Kane was among the first. He threatened to rape Niki and her roommate in Louisiana. That was something so bad that I find I don't need reminding of it. It's something burned into my heart. One day, Kane had some kind of personal problem and he left these boards. My philosophy says that I should forgive him sufficiently to wish him well. To do otherwise is to poison myself for his sake. But I found, when the time came, that I had no warmth for him at all. Not even the most basic warmth you feel for a fellow living creature. Realizing that, I felt sadness. Not for him, but selfishly for myself. I let someone break a piece of me that I valued. I let someone make me hate.

I realized, in retrospect, that this happened because I continued engaging with Kane long after our conversations had lost their purpose. I could not reach him. But he could reach me, and those I cared about. I should have disengaged when this became apparent, but I did not. And now there is a human being on this planet whose well-being I can no longer bring myself to care about.

No doubt, Kane was a broken man. Broken by some circumstance beyond my ken. No doubt, there were reasons for his utter terribleness. That no longer matters. The part of myself that I should love, the part of myself that was Kaneman... that part is dead.

I have recently come to the conclusion that I can't touch Wulf or Raptor. There is only one place to go from here if I continue engaging with them. I don't want to cut out another piece of my heart.

It is my lesson to myself. Once I realize that the five reasons to talk to someone are gone- once I realize the two reasons NOT to talk to someone are present- it's time to stop. Right away.

Before I hurt myself.

I believe in freedom of speech, but I also believe that words have power. Even bad, senseless, hurtful words. I have no armor if I listen to them without a purpose beyond getting angry. Possibly it is a weakness.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oh, and we may have to have a group hug here pretty soon, the way things are going.

Yup, definitely a group hug needed. Let's all edge towards one another awkwardly.

RIONAEIRE

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:28 AM

Hi Niki, I can guess that the "threat" you perceived from me was the incident when Wish freaked out and I said "I learned some new info about Wish today, time will tell how I choose to use that info." I don't see that as a threat, I see that as a statement which doesn't have a defined direction, a "we'll see what happens between her and I as time goes by" thing, plus really, what could I possibly do to her over the Internet, I mean really. She's far away from me and I don't like hurting people, so I'm not going to Mongul horde her in her sleep or anything. I felt like you were really dramatic in your opposition to my statement in that instance. I mention it because you bring up an incident when I "threatened" someone and that's the only time I reckon you could be thinking of, and I only know that because you said something at the time, otherwise I really would have no idea.

Byte and I don't always agree with each other about everything by any means, so you won't necessarily find us defending each other's positions on stuff, though sometimes we might if we agree, but that should be taken seperately from defending the person themselves. Because she's a good friend of mine I tend to defend her, she seems to do likewise, so we've got this mutual fealty thing goin on here.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.