From the Book of Dirty Tricks
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Monday, August 21, 2023 08:00
VIEWED: 3400
PAGE 4 of 5
Quote:
Originally posted by SkyDiveLife:
I may be going overboard, but voter fraud should be punished. Harshly.
Given how rarely it happens, in relation to how much people talk about it, you were right with that first part.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:Your privilege. It's no more unreasonable than to think that the 'motor-voter' law Democrats passed in 1993, which required that all folks signing up for any form of public assistance be given the right to register at the same time, wasn't designed to sign up more Democratic voters.
Originally posted by Niki2:
As I noted before, I don’t buy that.
Quote:
That one’s easy. The poor, young and minorities generally vote Democratic. If you can keep them from voting, you eliminate those votes. The poor would have to pay for an ID, as far as I know, so many wouldn’t. Minorities in the inner city might not have the ability to get photo IDs nearby.
As I noted above, (how many times am I going to have to say this?) based on the experience in Georgia, the only way states are going to be able to request photo I.D. is if they provide it for free. Why should it be any harder for minorities in the inner city, with access to public transit, to pick up a free I.D. than a rancher in Montana who's 50 miles from the county seat? Or are Democrats just too lazy to make the effort to get I.D.? Seems to be what you're saying.
Quote:
Here are cites which explain better than me, and what do you think of Florida’s new law, particularly?
I think your cite is biased and half-truthful. For examble, concerning address changes, it's not "Florida's new voting law will block the vote of people who have had a change of address, got married or divorced and changed their name, or moved because they are serving in the military."
Instead:
Quote:http://www.nwfdailynews.com/opinion/changes-40415-lux-florida.html
All in-county address changes will still be allowed at the polling place on election day. Address changes made by Florida voters who move between counties who are active-duty military (or family members) will also be allowed at the polling place on election day. All other voters who move between counties and neglect to change their registration address before election day will be asked to vote provisional ballots.
Once the supervisor determines that the voter in question has not voted in the other county in the same election, the voter’s provisional ballot will be presented to the canvassing board with a recommendation that it be counted.
One positive change concerning these voters is that between-county address changes will no longer require a “wet ink” signature on a registration form to accomplish the move. It now can be done over the phone, by e-mail, or online using a web form. Voters who need to make these changes can do so before election day to avoid having to vote provisional ballots.
So folks who move within a county or are in the military change addresses at the polling place and vote as usual, and folks who moved inter-county and didn't re-register vote a provisional ballot until it's confirmed they didn't vote elsewhere. The law also makes it EASIER to change addresses prior to election day. Not quite the same.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Thank you for clarifying that error, it was something I hadn't heard previously and as such shocked me.Quote:
First off, there is no guarantee the state will pay for photo I.D.s, yours is a supposition. Secondly, I don't want a rancher in Montana to have to drive 50 miles to get an I.D. either; I want everyone to have equal access to vote, period. These laws hamper that for some people.
As I noted above, (how many times am I going to have to say this?) based on the experience in Georgia, the only way states are going to be able to request photo I.D. is if they provide it for free. Why should it be any harder for minorities in the inner city, with access to public transit, to pick up a free I.D. than a rancher in Montana who's 50 miles from the county seat? Or are Democrats just too lazy to make the effort to get I.D.? Seems to be what you're saying.
You may feel the cites I put up are biased (you think the second one is, too?), but that doesn’t change the statistics presented:Quote:
THAT is a fact, I’ve done it and I know.
Anyone who has stood on the long lines at a motor vehicle office knows that it isn’t easy to get such documents. For working people, it could mean giving up a day’s wages. Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/opinion/27wed1.html
A survey by the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that 11 percent of citizens, 21 million people, do not have a current photo ID. That fraction increases to 15 percent of low-income voting-age citizens, 18 percent of young eligible voters and 25 percent of black eligible voters.
Note that the largest groups of people without photo I.D.s are precisely the groups affected by these laws. (Both those quotes with my remarks in the middle come from the last cite.)
How aboutQuote:
So if one doesn't have a birth certificate handy, one has to go through the process of obtaining a copy before being allowed to vote. How about those who don't know about the new laws? Too late, too late. Does it stop anyone already fraudulently registered from voting? No.
Before they can register, Kansans will have to produce a proof of citizenship, such as a birth certificate.
What about people like this elderly Black man?Quote:
Those, too, would most likely be poor, minorities or the elderly.
Larry Butler said that South Carolina’s new voter photo ID law will prevent him from voting. The state won’t issue him a driver’s license because he can’t produce the necessary documentation. Butler does not have a birth certificate because he was not born in a hospital and the elementary school he attended burnt down many years ago so the required records are not available.
As to students:
How does the following make voter fraud less possible, as opposed to simply making the time they’re allowed to vote early shorter?Quote:
In 2008, more than half the African-American voters in Florida who participated in the historic election of President Barack Obama did it by voting early. In the state's largest counties, with the highest number of black voters, many voters went to the early voting sites on the Sunday before Election Day. Now, under a new law — passed by a Republican Legislature and signed by Gov. Rick Scott last month — that early voting period has been cut from 14 days to 8 days, and the Sunday voting, before Election Day, has been eliminated.
An analysis of state election records by the Florida Democratic Party showed that in 2008, 1.1 million black voters participated in the general election, in which they had the opportunity to elect the country's first African-American president. Nearly 54 percent of those voters cast ballots before Election Day at early-voting sites. The figure does not include the 13.6 percent who cast absentee ballots.
In contrast, only 27
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I think there shouldn't be shorter voting periods, that's just inconvenient. And New Old, I hope you were joking about abolishing vote by mail, because voting by mail is the right way for me to vote. I can't do that whole look at the ballot at the voting pole thing, so I need to be able to vote at home. That's interesting about Australia by the way, I wouldn't adopt such a system, but I do think that more people should be voting, though with the crummy homogenized choices we have for leaders these days I can understand how people get discouraged and don't feel like voting.
I think we need to indeed keep voter fraud from happening, but if the rules currently in place are followed apropriately then we shouldn't need to make any more. I also think its important to make sure that all eligable people who want to vote are able to and I think vote by mail has helped this a lot. Like I said voting by mail means that I can vote without someone filling in the boxes for me and I can take as much time as I need to read the ballot. So I'm all for vote by mail. But I do think poles should be available too for people who like that.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Re voting by mail- no, Riona, I'm dead serious- To vote, you should have to show up in person. Proves you're still alive, still resident in or near the precinct where you vote. Would make it hard, but not of course, impossible, to vote in multiple precincts. Would prove that the vote you cast is cast by you, not some identity theft person. I don't believe in absentee ballots, for similar reasons, unless you're going to be traveling on Election Day or in military service. I don't like motor-voter, either, by the way. I think it opens the door to POSSIBLE fraud.
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Those in-person systems all make it very difficult for people with eye-sight problems though.
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I'd shy away from compulsory voting. There are folks who are conscientious nonvoters, as opposed to apathetic nonvoters, who either disagree with the choices they've been giving or are peacefully protesting a system of government they do not agree with.
I don't think requiring these people to participate in a system they care little about or are philosophically opposed to is going to yield very positive results.
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I think its New Old's new job to sit in the voter's booth with me and read me all the measures and fill in my boxes for me, don't that sound spiffy New Old? Or he can be the one in line behind me while I read my ballot with my portable CCTV and deliberate about how I want to vote. Or I could use a Braille ballot, but they don't usually have those conveniently waiting at the poles so it would have to ... horror or horrors ... come in the mail, shock and horror! Did I mention the Horror?
:)P
:)
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I think its New Old's new job to sit in the voter's booth with me and read me all the measures and fill in my boxes for me, don't that sound spiffy New Old? Or he can be the one in line behind me while I read my ballot with my portable CCTV and deliberate about how I want to vote. Or I could use a Braille ballot, but they don't usually have those conveniently waiting at the poles so it would have to ... horror or horrors ... come in the mail, shock and horror! Did I mention the Horror?
:)P
:)
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
I hope you're teasing. All of those services are supposed to be available at any polling place here in California. And I don't mind waiting in line. I did suggest, somewhere, absentee ballots for medical reasons. I guess I overlooked the notion that that could be extended to persons with a serious degree of handicap.
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" much harder"
Can you say "spin"? I knew ya could.
Good grief. What a bunch of absolute bullshit.
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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