From the Book of Dirty Tricks
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Monday, August 21, 2023 08:00
VIEWED: 3400
PAGE 3 of 5
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Which is no valid reason for making it HARDER for those who do want to.
But it's not HARD. Compare to Germany.
Quote:http://germany.angloinfo.com/countries/germany/vote.asp
Registering to Vote in Communal Elections.
All those resident in Germany who have completed the obligatory police registration procedure (polizeiliche Anmeldung) and who are legally entitled to vote will automatically receive a voting card (Wahlschein).
If no voting card is received and a person believes they are legally entitled to vote, an application can be made either in person at the voting office (Wahlamt) of the local town hall, by e-mail or by fax but not by telephone.
The following documents are required:
Police registration form (polizeiliche Anmeldung)
Proof of identity (passport)
Proof of residency in the country for a minimum of three months
Once the application to vote (Antrag) has been completed and approved, a voting card will be issued entitling the person to vote.
Per Wikipedia, voting turnout in Germany is 86%, the U.S. is 48%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout
Quote:But Republicans do see a consequence. They see the laws easing registration and I.D. requirements, mostly passed by Democratic legislatures, as a Liberal plan to provide an open door for folks who can't legally vote but would support Liberal agendas if they could. Just like you see the Conservative requirements as a nefarious plot by the Right.
On the other hand, if the states didn’t feel it was necessary before, why change it now, especially as there is no real consequence to leaving it the way it is?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Okay, if you don't think it's hard, then what is the VALID reason for making it hard? Just the money it will cost to implement this stuff goes against their "fiscal responsibility" cry, and, as any number of us have agreed THERE IS NO PROBLEM anyway. In other words, if it's not broken, why fix it (and charge the populace for doing so)? And I ask again: Why aren't they concentrating on jobs, like they promised??
Yeah, I see how SOME Republicans view it--but I think there are a lot more who view it as giving them an edge by making it tougher for those who would vote Democratic to do so. The fact that the way things are hasn't caused any real problem makes the argument a bit invalid. I see it as a ploy to stifle Democratic votes.Quote:
Could you provide some cites that the laws were "eased" by Democrats, please? I'm curious if that's the case, because it's a state-by-state thing.
laws easing registration and I.D. requirements, mostly passed by Democratic legislatures
Lastly, so we want to model ourselves after Germany? I thought we didn't compare ourselves to other countries' governments...if we're gonna do that, hell, a LOT of governments make voting tough, and many don't even allow it. Don't we pride ourselves on our democracy? There are many reasons America's voting percentage is as low as it is, and how easy or not it is to vote doesn't seem to me to be a real valid argument.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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I don't see the problem in people showing I.D., or having to prove their citizenship/non-felon status.
You have to be a citizen to vote, and you can't be a convicted felon either. On the "other-side" I would also like to see more transparency in vote counts. I've heard too many stories from places like Chicago, where dead people voted.
I may be going overboard, but voter fraud should be punished. Harshly.
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So should many, many things which aren't (punished), especially by our legislators. Voter fraud IS punished when it's found; it's not a real problem; and I too would like more transparency. The "accidental" purging/losing/etc. of votes is a much more serious problem, in my opinion.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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SkyDiveLife
I wonder who's sock-puppet you are ...
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I dislike sock puppet accusations, and regret the time I directed one at you.
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Quote:Niki, I don't consider the proposed requirements to shorten early voting periods or to obtain and show Photo I.D. to be hard. As I noted, other countries have requirements at least as - if not more - difficult and still have voter turnout almost twice as great as the U.S.
Originally posted by Niki2:
Okay, if you don't think it's hard, then what is the VALID reason for making it hard?
Quote:
Just the money it will cost to implement this stuff goes against their "fiscal responsibility" cry, and, as any number of us have agreed THERE IS NO PROBLEM anyway. In other words, if it's not broken, why fix it (and charge the populace for doing so)?.
As I noted before (two or three times, I think) the Republicans proposing this legislation may very well think THERE IS A PROBLEM. They may think that eased requirements for voter registration and identification have the potential to create a PROBLEM. They may consider funds spent to correct this as essential.
Quote:
I see it as a ploy to stifle Democratic votes.
And how would this occur? How many folks would not have the time to go down and pick up a free photo I.D. one time? How many people couldn't find the time in between a week and two weeks before election day to go file an early ballot?And why do you think that would be more onerous for Democrats than Republicans?
Quote:
Lastly, so we want to model ourselves after Germany?
No, we might COMPARE ourselves to Germany, and wonder why, with a much easier voting registration procedure, even if all Republican proposals were implemented, we can only get about half the percentage of people to bother to vote.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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As compared to Germany, we might try the Australian pattern. Registration and voting are compulsory-- they get about a 97 % turnout. Ya don't vote, they send ya a letter asking why. You don't have a good reason, they fine ya $20. Ya don't pay that, they take ya to court. They win there, they fine ya $50 plus court costs.
Seems to work there...
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Geezer:Quote:
As I noted before, I don’t buy that. The best I can imagine is that it’s about immigration and/or more of the “social issues” Republicans right now are pushing...whether they believe in them or they’re doing it to pander to their base (which I think is more the case), I don’t buy that they’re ACTUALLY afraid.
As I noted before (two or three times, I think) the Republicans proposing this legislation may very well think THERE IS A PROBLEM. They may think that eased requirements for voter registration and identification have the potential to create a PROBLEM. They may consider funds spent to correct this as essential.Quote:
That one’s easy. The poor, young and minorities generally vote Democratic. If you can keep them from voting, you eliminate those votes. The poor would have to pay for an ID, as far as I know, so many wouldn’t. Minorities in the inner city might not have the ability to get photo IDs nearby. ANYTHING we do to lessen citizens’ ability to vote is something in which I don’t believe. Here are cites which explain better than me, and what do you think of Florida’s new law, particularly?
why do you think that would be more onerous for Democrats than Republicans?Quote:
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/9029527-florida-republicans-
Republicans in Florida are following the lead of other states in passing laws to block the vote of people who tend to vote for democrats.
For the past 40 years, Floridian's have been able to report updates to their personal information when they went to polling places to vote. No more.
Florida's new voting law will block the vote of people who have had a change of address, got married or divorced and changed their name, or moved because they are serving in the military.
Additional changes cut early voting ballot time from 14 days to 8, and places profound restrictions on absentee voting, which heavily impacts military families.
Republicans are citing voter fraud issues as their reason to stop people from voting, but the argument is false. According to Salon.com, A Department of Justice document found that "between the fall of 2002 and the fall of 2005, there were only 95 defendants charged with federal election-fraud-related crimes in the whole country. Salon also reports that republicans have been "using foreclosure lists to challenge the edibility of voters."
Are republicans trying to influence the outcome of elections in their favor by passing block the vote laws aimed at democrats?
The massive hole in the voter fraud argument and aiming new laws at the poor, the elderly, and military families, gives substantial weight to the idea that republicans are attempting to influence the outcome of future elections in their favor, by manipulation voter registration laws.
pass-new-block-the-vote-law Quote:
Less than a year before the 2012 presidential voting begins, Republican legislatures and governors across the country are rewriting voting laws to make it much harder for the young, the poor and African-Americans — groups that typically vote Democratic — to cast a ballot.
Anyone who has stood on the long lines at a motor vehicle office knows that it isn’t easy to get such documents. For working people, it could mean giving up a day’s wages.
A survey by the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that 11 percent of citizens, 21 million people, do not have a current photo ID. That fraction increases to 15 percent of low-income voting-age citizens, 18 percent of young eligible voters and 25 percent of black eligible voters. Those demographic groups tend to vote Democratic, and Republicans are imposing requirements that they know many will be unable to meet.
Kansas’ new law was drafted by its secretary of state, Kris Kobach, who also wrote Arizona’s anti-immigrant law. Voters will be required to show a photo ID at the polls. Before they can register, Kansans will have to produce a proof of
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Wow NewOld, that's COOL! I wish we could have something similar, tho' I don't agree with the fine. If people don't WANT to vote, that should be their decision. But I like the rest!
So hey, Germany makes it much harder, Australia insists. Do we want to compare ourselves with every other country before we dedice what we want, Geezer?
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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