From the Book of Dirty Tricks

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Monday, August 21, 2023 08:00
VIEWED: 3400
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NIKI2

Sunday, June 19, 2011 5:12 PM

Mmm, good point Mike. I hope there's an "enterprising judge" out there somewhere.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

GEEZER

Sunday, June 19, 2011 7:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'm waiting for one of the state supreme courts to come out and say the obvious: if you require people to have a valid photo ID (driver's license, passport, etc.), and your state government charges any money for those things, you have in effect enacted a poll tax. You're charging people to vote, making it a privilege, not a right. And an enterprising judge would rule that if you're going to require such things, you also are required to provide them, free of charge, to every citizen.

The Court in Georgia did pretty much that when the legislation requiring photo ID passed, so the bill was amended to provide free I.D. Panelists on the show I was listening to thought that this would pobably end up in other states' legislation.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

GEEZER

Sunday, June 19, 2011 8:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
...but I maintain that these new laws do more to keep young, poor and minority CITIZENS from voting than they will keep any "ballot stuffing" from happening.

If you can obtain a photo I.D. for free, as is most likely to be the case (see my response to Mike's post above), I'm not sure how this will prevent any type of citizens from voting.

Quote:
Out of curiosity, how do YOU feel about it?

I figure that there are folks on both sides trying to get more of their voters and less of their opponents out to vote. If you google "Democrat voter fraud" or "Republican voter fraud" you'll see that partisan folks on both sides consider what the other guys are doing as "Dirty Tricks".

Personally, I'd prefer it if it took a bit of effort to vote. It might make folks think a bit more about what they're voting for.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:24 PM

SORRY, double post. OOPS!

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

Personally, I'd prefer it if it took a bit of effort to vote. It might make folks think a bit more about what they're voting for.

I haven't weighed in on this thread , but Geezer's point prods me.

PERSONAL OPINION: Once registered, I believe folks should have to show up in person, on Election Day, to vote. NO ONE should be allowed to vote in advance-- something might happen the night before Election Day that might change the situation, cause a voter to change his mind. Absentee ballots should be provided for those traveling on Election Day, but picked up in person before the trip. A medical exception should be allowed for persons hospitalized or confined to bed, accompanied by a Doctor's certificate that the person is in fact alive, not a fraud. That a person is too busy, or doesn't have time on Election Day should not be an excuse. If it isn't important enough for someone to make time, they shouldn't vote. Employers should be required to provide time off to vote during Voting hours, to prevent them scheduling workers to such long hours that they can't vote.

NIKI2

Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:56 PM

Score one for you, NewOld; you had me going right up to the "alive" part.

So instead of (because I vote by mail, every time now), I'll say -- good one!

Geezer, the voter turnout in America is so embarrassing for any democracy, it seems to me making it EASIER for people to vote should be the aim, not harder. Tho' I sometimes don't approve of their choices (or, more accurately, how they reached them!), I would never propose making it more difficult for ciizens to cast their vote. That's exactly what the requirement for an ID would do, and I think it's wrong. Voting is supposedly our RIGHT, isn't it? Does it say anything in whatever document gives us the right to vote that we should have to prove ourselves before we exercise that right?

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

BYTEMITE

Monday, June 20, 2011 12:23 AM

If this is about illegal immigrants and felons the problem isn't them voting, the problem is the voter kickback that sometimes comes with it and bloats some budgets. That can be addressed under the same political corruption issues I'm always harping on about. No reason to make things in this society more difficult to have your voice heard by creating new rules that could easily be exploited for use against members of other groups, such as ourselves.

But if we want to talk about voter or registration fraud I'll say maybe there's a case.

1KIKI

Monday, June 20, 2011 12:38 AM

"Personally, I'd prefer it if it took a bit of effort to vote. It might make folks think a bit more about what they're voting for."

Why do you think making it harder to vote would make folks more thoughtful? It seems it best screens for either people with easier schedules or those with a major ax to grind - whether they are thoughtful and rational - or not. Are you in favor of the various states efforts to re-enact what are the modern day versions of poll-taxes and Jim Crow laws? It sure seems like it.

I think election day should be a holiday. But that doesn't help people who have to work on holidays - nurses, gas station attendants, cashiers ... nor does it help people who have to work by virtue of the fact they can't afford to stop, not even for a day. It should be EASIER for people to vote and the qualifications should be the same across the entire country.

Let FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY reign!

GEEZER

Monday, June 20, 2011 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Geezer, the voter turnout in America is so embarrassing for any democracy, it seems to me making it EASIER for people to vote should be the aim, not harder.

Googling 'why people don't vote', it seems folks blame cynicism and apathy much more frequently than than difficulty in the process.

Quote:
Tho' I sometimes don't approve of their choices (or, more accurately, how they reached them!), I would never propose making it more difficult for ciizens to cast their vote. That's exactly what the requirement for an ID would do, and I think it's wrong.

Still not sure how dropping by the DMV or local government office to pick up a free photo I.D. would be that discouraging to folks who actually wanted to vote.

Quote:
Voting is supposedly our RIGHT, isn't it? Does it say anything in whatever document gives us the right to vote that we should have to prove ourselves before we exercise that right?
]

The Constitution requires that one be a U.S. citizen and at least 18 to vote in national elections. All other qualifications are left to the states, such as residency requirements. Shouldn't people be required to show that they meet these requirements?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

STORYMARK

Monday, June 20, 2011 2:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
You're not going to like my answer.

Nope. Because you avoided answering.

Really? I thought her answer was abundantly plain.

Senility must be wearing on ya.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

NIKI2

Monday, June 20, 2011 4:18 PM

Quote:
it seems folks blame cynicism and apathy much more frequently than than difficulty in the process

Which is no valid reason for making it HARDER for those who do want to.

Quote:
dropping by the DMV or local government office to pick up a free photo I.D. would be that discouraging to folks who actually wanted to vote.

On the other hand, if the states didn’t feel it was necessary before, why change it now, especially as there is no real consequence to leaving it the way it is?

Quote:
Shouldn't people be required to show that they meet these requirements?

Some states, as above, do require proof of residence, but again; what is the VALID reason for changing it? It’s a ploy to enhance voting levels on the right, pure and simple, in my opinion.

To go beyond that, why are all these REPUBLICAN governors and legislators bothering with this, when they were elected on “jobs, jobs, jobs”? Everything they’ve done/are doing is about social issues, NOTHING to enhance job growth, so this is just more “get it while you can” in my opinion.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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