Spanking now a felony in Texas

POSTED BY: Hardware
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 16:10
VIEWED: 7408
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HARDWARE

Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:19 PM

http://www.volunteertv.com/national/headlines/Mom_pleads_guilty_to_spa
nking_own_child_124072014.html

Quote:

CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas (CBS) -- A judge in Corpus Christi, Texas had some harsh words for a mother charged with spanking her own child before sentencing her to probation.

"You don't spank children today," said Judge Jose Longoria. "In the old days, maybe we got spanked, but there was a different quarrel. You don't spank children."

Rosalina Gonzales had pleaded guilty to a felony charge of injury to a child for what prosecutors had described as a "pretty simple, straightforward spanking case." They noted she didn't use a belt or leave any bruises, just some red marks...

Wow. Just wow. I hope the citizens in Corpus Christi are paying attention. Judge Jose Longoria needs a one way ticket to Nuevo Laredo after he is not elected again next term.

Sidebar issue. As a convicted felon Rosalinda Gonzales is now a person prohibited from firearm ownership. What a violent offender!

Discuss.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

KWICKO

Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:45 PM

Quote:
I hope the citizens in Corpus Christi are paying attention. Judge Jose Longoria needs a one way ticket to Nuevo Laredo after he is not elected again next term.

Why do you assume that the judge isn't an American citizen? Or are you just in favor of deporting ALL those with whom you disagree?

NIKI2

Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:00 AM

Quote:
Why do you assume that the judge isn't an American citizen? Or are you just in favor of deporting ALL those with whom you disagree?

No, just those with foreign-sounding names with whom he disagrees!

On the other hand, yes, this is PC taken too far. Surprises me this is Texas, where I'd think a good spanking wouldn't be considered noteworthy. It's bad to spank a child, but for it to result in all these consequences? Bullshit...there should be something in the middle, like some kind of COUNSELING or something...or education, whatever you want to call it. We DO need to change the mindset of hitting a kid, or a dog, or anything, but that's not the way to do it!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

WORLDSPRAYER

Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:39 AM

Being that I am from Texas, I can say I am both surprised and not surprised. Texas has lately (last 10 years-ish) had an apparently large influx of out-of-stater's. As a result, certain areas of Texas are becoming more and more liberal, Austin being a prime and exaggerated example of such. That being said, I think this is slightly nuts. It is nice to believe that everyone can rationally discuss things as a correction...but that is operating under the assumption that everyone has a rational, mature, adult mentality and thought process. Children...do not have this outside the prodigies. Quite simply, children learn their best lesson I think via pain. Don't touch the stove it's hot....oh? See what happened? Don't lie...oh that hurt? Don't call that darker or foreign sounding person bad names...oh you don't like the taste of soap? Keep swishing. Pain is the most natural manner of instilling in a person the concept of consequence. I have found it very interesting that as the American "values" standard is at an apparent all-time low, the belief that corporal punishment is "bad" is at an all-time high (I could be wrong i admit.) I do not believe this to be a coincidence. Physical punishment administered via rational and deliberate decision (not made and carried out in anger at what the child did) is/can be one of the healthiest tribulations for a growing and developing person. I know this: I would rather any child of mine grow up with a dislike for me for spanking them in their youth than them grow up with the misguided belief that they can get away with something with only a "talking to".
According to: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/20/fourteenyearold-can-get-l_n_8
64927.html Children in some states ARE capable of getting life sentences for crimes committed...so that instilling of right and wrong better start early.

KWICKO

Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:53 AM

Y'know, being an Austinite, I find it humorous to hear my city being called an "exaggerated" liberal hub. What's funny is, in the last 20+ years, I've watched Austin become more and more conservative. It's to the point now that we sometimes refer to it as "South Dallas" or "North Houston".

Hell, we used to get "spats" (spanking with a wooden paddle resembling a cricket bat) in middle school, and it was no biggie. It was still easier than what I'd face at home, and at least they told you in advance exactly how many times you were going to get hit!

Is it right to hit a child? Nope. But is spanking a FELONY? Seems more than a bit overzealous.

HARDWARE

Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
I hope the citizens in Corpus Christi are paying attention. Judge Jose Longoria needs a one way ticket to Nuevo Laredo after he is not elected again next term.

Why do you assume that the judge isn't an American citizen? Or are you just in favor of deporting ALL those with whom you disagree?

Not what I was implying at all. Just wanted to send him someplace "nice" after his enforced retirement. I don't give a damn what his ethnic origin is. He is, I presume, an American citizen.

In any event, my prejudices against foreigners have nothing to do with this case. Please discuss the issue at hand. You have plenty of other threads in which to snipe at me.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

HARDWARE

Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:50 AM

Interesting that you bring up dogs Niki.

I have a good friend named Wendy who trains dogs with purely positive methods. I exchanged professional services with her. I built her a basic website for her business and she helped me train my dogs (all rescues). My male (N) dog was starved as a pup before he was rescued. As you no doubt know, this can lead to developmental disabilities that last the lifetime of the dog.

At the age of 1 1/2 we started working with him on not jumping on visitors when they enter my house. We worked on this with him for a year. At the one year mark Wendy said; "Some dogs need a small negative to help them learn." We started using a negative reinforcement of a water bottle. He jumped on visitors, he got a squirt of water. Behavior broken in 2 months.

Is that a huge negative? I don't think so. Did it stop the maladaptive behavior? Yes, very effectively.

I think that very young children especially can benefit from mild negatives. As my aunt used to say; "Nobody ever died from a swat on the rear."

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

NIKI2

Sunday, June 19, 2011 2:51 AM

So you think children learn their best lesson via pain. That pretty much says it all. You just joined a few minutes ago, and this is the first thread you've felt worthy of joining in which to respond. Interesting. I feel so strongly against what you said that I'll leave it at that.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:09 AM

So once again we have half a story and a knee jerk outcry from the usual suspects. According to the Texan Attorney general's departmemt in Texas, spanking is not a crime in that state, so who knows the back story to the sentencing. We do know that this mother does not have custody of her children, who currently live with their paternal grandmother, which gives some indication that not all is right.

NIKI2

Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:22 AM

Oh, Hardware, I think you blew it on that choice of examples. I'm a big fan of Cesar Milan and his methods, and I've trained all my own dogs--I have two Siberian huskies and people are always amazed we have them off leash when hiking, because all the books say you should never let a Sibe off leash. Ours roam, but they always check in before five minutes have passed. So I THINK I have somewhat of a grasp of how to train a dog.

First of all, a squirt of water in the face isn't PHYSICAL PAIN, which is what we've been discussing. Second, the answer is that in my opinion your trainer didn't use all the methods available to her (NO offense to your trainer, each has their own method). I've heard of trainers using stuff like that, including physical pain, but they're never as effective as Cesar Milan's methods. If he was there, he would have shown you quite quickly that negative reinforcement was not only not needed, but was CONTRARY to imparting the lesson in a way which would be effective with many, many dogs. It might not have harmed your dog, because I agree it's a small negative and your dog is/was probably pretty okay to begin with, but it could have been disasterous with insecure OR aggressive dogs.

Negative reinforcement which includes any physical pain may solve the problem for a short duration, or solve one problem, but isn't an effective method of dealing with any valid animal training. It's always a matter of the owner's attitude toward the dog and not being a good enough "pack leader" which makes training difficult. CONSEQUENCES are different from reinforcement; dogs need rules, boundaries and limitations, but PAIN is never part of it.

Quote:
It's one of the most common mistakes someone without a lot of dog training experience will make: trying to get the dog to "avoid" a behavior by punishing them for it. But does this really work, and if it did, wouldn't it be much easier to train dogs? One of the first distinctions that you have to learn in working with dogs is that they don't respond to punishment the same way humans will.

Yes, dogs will avoid behaviors if they know that that behavior will produce some sort of negative response. That is the essence and theory behind negative reinforcement. But adding to a dog's fears and anxieties isn't exactly the most productive way to get them to become a healthy member of your household. Instead, a dog will respond just as strongly to positive actions that lead to positive results.

Quote:
While a combination of positive and negative reinforcement may be adequate to discipline a human child, positive reinforcement dog training is far superior to any negative reinforcement plan with your pets. The fundamental reason behind this is that dogs are pack animals and are accustomed to a stratified social hierarchy. In the wild, dogs take their cues for behavior from an alpha leader of the group. Rather than punish bad behavior, the alpha will tend to reward good behavior, and as a result, dogs tend to work to be in favor with the alpha dog.

Negative Reinforcement Causes Fear

One of the primary reasons why negative reinforcement is not an adequate or appropriate form of canine behavior training is that it leads to fear. If you reprimand your dog harshly for a misbehavior, he may come to associate the punishment incorrectly in his mind. In many cases, the dog interprets your punishing him for cruelty or meanness on your part and fails to link the admonishment with the behavior that you were addressing. As a result, your pet may come to fear you and may still continue to misbehave in the same manner. Fear is a dangerous thing in dogs, as it can often lead to aggressive behavior. As a result, your punishing your pet with negative reinforcement can lead to biting, growling and other undesirable behaviors.

Negative Reinforcement Trains Dogs to Avoid You

Punishing your dog for a bad behavior can

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