How to win an argument with Liberals-Progressives-Socialists-etc...

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Thursday, June 16, 2011 09:23
VIEWED: 32999
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NIKI2

Tuesday, June 7, 2011 2:35 AM

No, Wulf, you're right. I DID say I wouldn't have said it in quite those words, and I'll say clearly that Frem went over the line, in my opinion. Because you and Raptor frustrate me so much (one reason I'm not here as much, I haven't mastered not taking the bait yet), there was a visceral enjoyment out of how pissed off he was. But no, I don't see you quite the same way (tho' some of it rings true) and I wouldn't have said those things to or about you.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NIKI2

Tuesday, June 7, 2011 2:37 AM

Ah, sorry KPO...I'm responding as I read. I should have left it for you, who answered the question more precisely. And I forgot, it all revolved around a thread Wulf put up about a 30-round clip being NEEDED (right after that shooting). Thanx, KPO, you reminded me of that. I'm going to read all the posts before responding to any more.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NIKI2

Tuesday, June 7, 2011 2:45 AM

Byte, KPO got it right, it was about that 30-round clip, and Wulf was convinced he could run in shooting and solve the situation. It wasn’t about hitting any of the rapists, just startling them from the safety of a car (so you could get back out quickly and safely...shot-out tires don’t stop a car) and making a lot of noise and stuff, I believe. Wasn’t “car v. gun” as weapon, and the whole thing revolved around whether a 30-round clip was something that would in and of itself solve the situation.

Oops, reading down I see Frem has cleared up the controversy on that part, anyway...and you can see just how “horrible and maddening” his response was. Thanx for finding the thread, Frem; anyone who wants to judge what Wulf finds so sickening he’d like to see people killed over writing can go there and make up their own mind. Me, I’d just as soon forget that discussion, it was another of those trying-to-get-through-to-Wulf things I got caught up in and still fight not to get roped into.

And Frem: Kuddos. You got ME--note my visceral reaction, as I said--with your verbiage, too, which only goes to show 'ya...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

KANEMAN

Tuesday, June 7, 2011 2:58 AM

You guys are the best...this
Thread reminds me of old times...fucking hilarious

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, June 7, 2011 3:25 AM

I wasn't contradicting anything anyone had said in this thread. I was directly responding to Wulf about strategy.

Frem: I have to confess to more than a few of those tendencies myself. I particularly like swords, maybe it's just the shiny, or the sound they make, or the way they look in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing...

Which is not me. I'm more of an old fashioned fisticuffs person, which is maybe for the best. I think hand to hand training, while all of this is less convenient than a gun, requires more control and restraint, which is probably something I need. Big fan of the martial arts, and all the discipline.

HARDWARE

Tuesday, June 7, 2011 3:53 AM

Well, the correct order of use is; Brain, feet, gun. Insert phone when appropriate and use of same does not endanger you.

Intervening in a gang rape is a good way to become a guest of honor at a stomp circle. Mobs are ugly, stupid animals and unless you can pick out the definitive leader (assuming one exists) you are better off backing off and contacting the police. Document with photographs and/or video if you can without drawing attention.

Sad to say you can get a faster response if you call in to 911 and report a fire with injuries than calling in a rape in progress. Rapes don't get out of control and consume whole neighborhoods.

No, guns aren't the smart answer. But if it was someone I knew or one of my relatives I can't say for certain which way I would jump.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

NIKI2

Tuesday, June 7, 2011 4:04 AM

Gotcha Hardware. Somewhere in that thread I kinda said the same thing, that I would probably try to do something even tho' if I thought about it I would know it was the height of stupidity. For me, wouldn't matter who it was, I've done it even for dogs. Some of us react to help those in need reflexively, it's not something we choose and I'm NOT saying it's a good thing. It's brought me trouble in the past, but I wouldn't be any other way, certainly not someone drooling for an excuse to find something they can point to as justifying a 30-round clip.

You kinda made the argument we did at the time, about calling for help; if I recall correctly, that caused Wulf to call us some kind of name(s) and say we were cowards or something. I forget. And want it to stay that way. Thank you.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, June 7, 2011 12:45 PM

I still say I was right about that situation. (but you already knew that)

An example: A building is on fire. You can see that on the third floor, there are children trapped. The entrance is a mess and the fire is out of control.

What do you do?

You can call 911 (which is the least and most basic thing as a human being you MUST do), and then wait for the fire department to arrive.

Or.

You can call 911 and then go in to try and help.

Maybe you can stand to hear children being burned alive, while you wait.

I couldn't. But that's me. And according to many, MANY here that makes me some sort of crazy idiot.

Its a choice. Is your life worth being put on the line to help strangers you never met?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, June 7, 2011 1:22 PM

Ain't a matter of *IF*, dumbass, it's a matter of HOW - chargin into a "situation" all willy-nilly is usually just a recipe for one more victim.

In fact, it's actually the SMART thing to do, to pull up short of a "situation" on approach and catch your breath instead of arriving winded, and pick your approach with care while observing the situation - that way if you're only gonna get ONE chance, you can make it count for as much as possible, or even get the drop on the potentive opposition completely.
(Which, if total enough, can shut DOWN a situation instead of escalating it, as barging straight in is wont to do)

Of course, words wasted on you, Wulfenwhiner, cause all you're doing is playing What-If-Monkey and throwing "27 ninjas questions"...
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/WIMS.htm
In order to re-frame any situation till it "justifies" killing someone, either cause you don't like them over race, culture or ideology, or to feed your ego, I don't much care - which ties right in with your jackboot licking, since you think if the "right" people obtain power you'll have free reign to commit whatever abuses you like on people you don't like...

Quote:
Jackals: "Finally, we have a strong leader ready to put those malcontents in their places! Where do I sign up?" Jackals are like Lemmings and Snakes: they eagerly collaborate with the villain because they think his campaign of terror and genocide are just causes. Whether it's out of hate, fanaticism, or ignorance, they prefer the villain's despotism to a more benevolent regime. Usually, they're harmless once the villain is dethroned: their prejudice comes out only when the bad guys are in power.

Of course it never occurs to you that the first folk to go will be the unreliable lunatics (i.e. YOU) they dare not leave lingering about for some Robespierre wannabe (like yours truly) to manipulate against them - learn some fucking history, idjit.

Oh, and Niki ?
I wasn't ever kidding about my ability to wind people up - the local law is only *half* kidding about that voice of saruman thing and the notion of taping my mouth shut if they ever have to arrest me... cause I damn well *can* stir up an angry mob lickety-split, which is easier than you'd ever imagine anywhere near Detroit, cause them folk got a damn lot to be angry ABOUT, and pushing the right buttons don't take a whole damn lot.

For a fact, if I really wanted to trash this place, I could do more damage with a megaphone than a half ton of TNT.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

THEHAPPYTRADER

Tuesday, June 7, 2011 2:36 PM

I can see how being a 'hero' is appealing to a young (and single?) person but Frem has a point on how charging in could just create more victims.

Before judging others on the 'inaction' remember that some people have more than only themselves to live for. Would you advocate a single mother charge into that building? Sometimes it's harder not to 'act' (outside of calling authorities) but it really is the best option.

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