I'd like to discuss this theory rationally
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 17:48
VIEWED: 17233
PAGE 7 of 9
"Our enemy is so loosely defined, it's possible that you could call it genocide."
Hello,
Most genocides are relatively well defined.
In the past few years, the term has been so liberally applied by certain groups that it is losing its value as informative language.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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Again; I’m responding to several people, so just hit “reply” to the last post, that being Anthony’s.
Anthony,Quote:
I agree. The term seems to have become such a part of the vernacular that it is applied to many things which do not fit. Again, a visceral term intended to provoke reaction, or else a mistakenly-held belief which seems to describe something but which doesn’t in reality.
In the past few years, the term has been so liberally applied by certain groups that it is losing its value as informative language.
DT:Quote:
That’s what I was referring to, that polls are a reflection of the current feelings/thinking of the people, not that they are the be-all, end-all, and as such polls from the past shouldn't be use to substantiate a debate about a current situation.
I think the poll would show the current emotional flare.
As toQuote:
Maybe I missed something, but I never saw that, and I find it hard to believe it could be "close to all of us". As was clarified for me (I think it was Sig?), the news that he was dead apparently came from a nation that had a reason for people to believe him to be dead. I’ve yet to see any verifiable proof that he died before last weekend; but then, I’m not seeking same, he’s long since ceased to be that important in and of himself for me.
You could go back through the earlier posts and see how many people said at some point "OBL is (already/probably) dead."
I certainly agree that we’ve long needed something to feel “victorious” about and that this may well explain why people who may otherwise have believed he was dead some time ago are now expressing relief at the news that he’d been killed. It might also reflect that they didn’t fully believe or questioned the previous information that he was dead long ago. I couldn’t say. I never believed he was dead because I think a big furor would have erupted if people believed it; several years ago he WAS Al Qaeda to people, so his death would have been headlines all over.
There’s a huge difference between war IN Pakistan and war WITH Pakistan. Yes, certainly I don’t deny we’ve been waging a “war” to seek out and destroy Al Qaeda within Pakistan’s borders, but I understood the remarks to indicate we were at war WITH Pakistan itself.Quote:
I’d like to read that for myself; do you have any cites on it?
Drones killed 800 civilians and no confirmed targets in one attack, and that's according to us.Quote:
That I definitely disagree with, and would HAVE to see some proof to believe otherwise. To me, it’s a conclusion you have come to, not a substantiated fact.
The point of doing that is to set an example. Quetta was not on board with our plan to militarize the Iranian border.... The point of the attack was to teach them a lesson, to make them fall in line.
As to what PN posted,Quote:
I would definitely have to see facts to back up those claims. I haven’t heard a single word on the news, nor have I read anywhere, any of those things. I’ve read QUESTIONS about whether he was taken alive or shot dead, but nothing about “torture”, nor any of the other claims. Given they had that blackout time, we can’t know what happened during that time, I grant you, but all of that being “official policy officially stated and repeatedly in the news“, I don’t accept without some verifiable cites and sources.
Navy SEALS made no raid on the "compound"
Paki raided the house for routine arrests
There was no "firefight"
Navy SEALS picked up the arrested man who "looked a little like Bin Laden because he had a beard"
Navy SEALS then tortured and executed that unarmed POW and dumped his body in the ocean, no lawyer and no trial allowed
CIA director General BetrayUS was staying 100 yards from that house 1 year ago, at the Paki military compound next door in that city
I did find some interesting aspects to the Pakistanis involvement or lack thereof:Quote:
(Lieuten
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Well I can tell you one thing I have 100% confidence in, regarding this whole situation.
The lingering aroma of rodent is unmistakeable.
One can argue the nomenclature, species, location and identity of said rodent, but that it is there, is something I have absolute certainty of.
In lieu of direct evidence, all you have to go on is trust and credibility, but I am of the firm opinion your own olfactory examination concurs with mine.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
Hello,
Well, yes, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
In that, we agree.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
Hey Anthonyt, what do you have agains Denmark? that is my country after all :-)just curios :-)
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It's a quote from Shakespeare. The theatre piece Hamlet. Suggests treachery and such from the people in charge. Nothing in particular to do with Denmark excepting the play takes place in Denmark and concerns the nobility of long ago.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
It's a quote from Shakespeare. The theatre piece Hamlet. Suggests treachery and such from the people in charge. Nothing in particular to do with Denmark excepting the play takes place in Denmark and concerns the nobility of long ago.
Aahh sorry then, no harm done :-)
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Hello,
My belief is that it was politically inexpedient to speak about the current monarchs of your own country, so Shakespeare would either talk about dead kings or foreign kings in his stories. The Hamlet play involves royals engaged in murder, betrayal, schemes, and revenge. Did the play speak to something going on in Shakespeare's own country at the time? Or is it just a good story? I wonder.
The most delicious thing I find in Hamlet is that in the play, the character of Hamlet stages a play, which becomes a play within a play. All this to make subtle swipes at the King to see how he reacts, hopefully to reveal his own guilt in dastardly deeds. "The play's the thing, "he says, "Wherein I'll catch the conscience of the King."
Even if you don't like Shakespeare, I think you have to admire all those fun little rhyming couplets he uses.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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Niki,
The OBL is dead threads predated you, so ill let that one slide, the quetta threads you were here for. It was a thread before teh attack even occurred, when it was just being talked about, and then again when it happened. Im sure everyone posted links. This constant denial of everything gets tiresome, I come here to read and discuss news, not teach history. Look it up or dont, i dont particularly care.
Anthony,
I beg to differ, not about shakespeare, about genocide. I think most genocide is defined in just this manner. We are out to kill muslims, particular the very religious and tribal kind. We seek to turn the rest into some secular population of placid working consumers. But most often genocide does not start out as "we're out to kill [ethnic]" Stalin began with the idea that the Ukraine was outdated, and he would bring it civilization. He meant to kill them all from the word go, but he did so by helping them with charity and assistance. This is how the slaughter usually begins.
Ive posted here before that i believe my ancestors were killed not because they were jewish, but because they were slavs, a race believed by all the great eugenics minds of europe and america to by inferior. Several other genocides were more or less concurrent with that of jews, against ukrainians, poles, serbs and gypsies, who are themselves east indian, aka aryan, and not slavic.
If anyone is ever in any doubt of the application of the word genocide, i refer them to the UN convention on genocide, one of the few actual victories gained from world war ii. Ive ppsted it here many times, but i'm on the ipad right now on the road, and its a pain.
Read it over and see if none of it applies to our overall policy towards muslims, and if perhaps we are not in some way trying to cull the population, subdue it, and curb their birth rate. Theres no question i think that we have an ethnic bias in our characterization and in our selection of targets.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
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Hello Dream,
I think we disagree on motive, which is an essential component of genocide.
It is not enough to kill a bunch of people in a country, but to do it with the correct intent.
Specifically: "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
I don't think that is the intent. Lots of tribal muslims may be getting killed, but it's not because we want to wipe out tribal muslims as a people.
Since motive is subjective, I don't think we'll agree on this. I look at the world at an angle at least 30 degrees off from the way you look at it.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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TV Black Screen of Death in the Situation Closet
CIA admits: no live footage of raid
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-L
aden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html
Quote:
Obama: I won't release bin Laden death photos
"The risks of release outweigh the benefits," he said. "Conspiracy theorists around the world will just claim the photos are doctored anyway, and there is a real risk that releasing the photos will only serve to inflame public opinion in the Middle East."
LATEST LEAKED PHOTO OF DEAD OSAMA!!!!
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20059739-503544.html
Quote:
White House PSYOP Script Falls Apart, Bin Laden Story Keeps Changing-Obama’s Nose Keeps Growing
By FBI Arabic translator Sibel Edmonds, her testimony censored from the 9/11 Commission Report for proving CIA employed Al Qaeda on 9/11/2001.
Here are the latest changes to the Obama administration’s lies-filled script. Let’s keep track of them, and keep them on the front burner, because as you know, as more come out, as we get more confirmed contradictions, the fantastical story tends to get pushed onto the backburner by the media, from front page stories-headlines to Page A2, and from there to B18, and pretty quickly into the usual black hole:
We have gone from the heavy and intensely fought operation against fighting armed men in the Bin Laden compound to no real fight and only one little armed man:
Four of the five people shot to death in the operation that killed Osama bin Laden, including the al-Qaida leader himself, were unarmed and never fired a shot…
We went from armed Bin Laden using his wife as a shield to armed Bin Laden using an anonymous woman as a shield, to unarmed Bin Laden using some kind of a woman as a shield, and now, unarmed Bin Laden in pajamas using no one as a shield!
But last night, the White House said Bin Laden was not armed when a U.S. Navy SEAL confronted and killed him during Sunday night’s assault on his compound.
…
Security officials said they did not recover any arms and explosives during their detailed search of the compound and the 13-roomed house, during which they removed two buffalos, a cow and around 150 chickens.
…
We were told that Bin Laden’s compound was a lavish mansion worth over one million dollars, and now we hear it was a humble mud –covered house with not even an air-conditioning system worth less than $250,000:
Bin Laden’s house, described by the US government as a $1m (£605,000) mansion, is in fact worth no more than $250,000 say property professionals in Abbottabad, the town where he was killed.
…
Descriptions of Bin Laden’s hideout have also been prone to exaggeration. After Sunday night’s dramatic raid by US Navy Seals, a senior Obama administration official told reporters that the property, an “extraordinarily unique compound” in an “affluent suburb”, was valued at around $1m.But two property professionals in Abbottabad – a quiet, military-dominated town – said that much of that was incorrect. Based on the size of the plot and the house, which was built in 2005, and using recent property sales as a guide, they estimated that it would fetch no more than $250,000 on the current market.
“Twenty million rupees, maximum,” said property dealer Muhammad Anwar, a 22-year veteran of the local market, at his Abbottabad office. “No swimming pool. This is not a posh area. We call it a middling area.”
…
We were given torture, traditional long-term interrogation techniques and surveillance as the major factors leading to the scripted victory, and now we get official statements from Pakistan indicating that they, the Pakistani intelligence, had provided Bin Laden’s location to Mr. Obama over 2 years ago, and again six months ago!
Pakistan hit back Wednesday about US fears that it could not be trusted with details of the raid on osama bin Laden’s compound and claimed it had ideNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
My first thought is that the title talks about “discussing rationally”; what’s PN doing here? “BoilingFrogpost”?? “Aangirfan.blogspot”?? “Lonestarwatchdog”?? So you get your "news" from bloggers...I see. I don’t think he read the title...
DT,Quote:
Ah. I see. So you don’t come here to “learn” as you have claimed repeatedly. And the way you write you are DEFINITELY intent on “teaching”, sometimes history, sometimes other things. Apparently you just didn’t come here to EXPLAIN how you came to your conclusions/opinions, just to state them and expect them to be accepted as the only reality.
I come here to read and discuss news, not teach history
Basically,I’m with Anthony. And PN is sick. Sick, sick, SICK!
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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