I'd like to discuss this theory rationally
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 17:48
VIEWED: 17233
PAGE 5 of 9
Hi Kwicko
On consideration, I realized that there are some people like Rap who never tire of the chase, who are about as informed as a greyhound after the 'rabbit'. Whoohowdy, let's get binladenhusseinobamamuslimsunions in our strike for justicepeacevalueschristianityprofits ...
OTOH how often can one crank the demonizing-self-aggrandizing-rahrah-machine before sane people realize that they've been there before, not even two years ago, and the two years before that ...
Frem
I have no comment on whether this is a scam or real. Watching the Japanese and US governments and the IAEA blunder Fukushima (Fuku - wwwwhat? Isn't that so over?) while at the same time stonewalling the world - I realize there is very little that's beyond them at least in terms of intentions.
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Hello,
I remember similar news stories, and my friends and I have spent the past several years debating the likelihood of OBL's death. Most of us agreed, years ago, that he was probably dead.
Which wasn't a terribly original position, since every source that 'proves' his death also uses the terms 'probably' and 'likely.'
Unless the source is actually just an opinion piece run by a conspiracy site, in which case they aren't merely sure he's dead, they know how, when, why, and can name the brand of ice chips the government stored him in until the other night.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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Well I can tell you one thing I have 100% confidence in, regarding this whole situation.
The lingering aroma of rodent is unmistakeable.
One can argue the nomenclature, species, location and identity of said rodent, but that it is there, is something I have absolute certainty of.
In lieu of direct evidence, all you have to go on is trust and credibility, but I am of the firm opinion your own olfactory examination concurs with mine.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Well I can tell you one thing I have 100% confidence in, regarding this whole situation.
The lingering aroma of rodent is unmistakeable.
One can argue the nomenclature, species, location and identity of said rodent, but that it is there, is something I have absolute certainty of.
In lieu of direct evidence, all you have to go on is trust and credibility, but I am of the firm opinion your own olfactory examination concurs with mine.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
Hello,
Well, yes, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
In that, we agree.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Well I can tell you one thing I have 100% confidence in, regarding this whole situation.
The lingering aroma of rodent is unmistakeable.
One can argue the nomenclature, species, location and identity of said rodent, but that it is there, is something I have absolute certainty of.
In lieu of direct evidence, all you have to go on is trust and credibility, but I am of the firm opinion your own olfactory examination concurs with mine.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
Very much agreed.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hi Kwicko
On consideration, I realized that there are some people like Rap who never tire of the chase, who are about as informed as a greyhound after the 'rabbit'. Whoohowdy, let's get binladenhusseinobamamuslimsunions in our strike for justicepeacevalueschristianityprofits ...
OTOH how often can one crank the demonizing-self-aggrandizing-rahrah-machine before sane people realize that they've been there before, not even two years ago, and the two years before that ...
Frem
I have no comment on whether this is a scam or real. Watching the Japanese and US governments and the IAEA blunder Fukushima (Fuku - wwwwhat? Isn't that so over?) while at the same time stonewalling the world - I realize there is very little that's beyond them at least in terms of intentions.
Kiki - it seems one can crank said demon-maker about once every couple years. All one need do is shift the focus a bit and change some of the particulars of the demon image one wishes to project. It was David Koresh one year, Tim McVeigh another, and so the wheel goes.
**ETA: I *love* that it made a hotlink out of your "wh-wh-what" spelling. Wonder if anyone owns that web domain...
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill
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Just to interject some humor here, cause sometimes what can ya do but laugh...
Maybe we really *DID* kill him twice, only the second time it was zombie-osama, and the next Qeada tactic will be a zombie invasion. 
In which case, fuck the SEALS, gimme Kohta Hirano!
Dude, a Japanese gun-geek, just IMAGINE how repressed that poor bastards gotta be.
-Frem
PS. R1 Release date is (tenative) June 28th, but Seraphim is having tech problems with the dubbing.
Y'all would prolly like it, classic sex-n-violence B-movie shlock.
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Frem,
Yes, thanks. It's a problem in an argument when you have a distinct memory of something but you can't call it up. I recall reading it on Haaretz, and then my searches on site:haaretz.com was not bringing anything up.
Curiously, a fair number of bookmarks I made on stories relating to Bin Laden's earlier demise only a few days ago are now linked to 404 pages. I suspect word went out to take down these sorts of reports.
You're winning the argument on the AI thing. Just as long as it's not made by you know who and co. I might give it a little more leeway
ETA: Pretty easy to hit a radio. It's broadcasting its location. A little triangulation... The guy who told me that the US had bombed Bin Laden later said he doubted the airstrike had killed him, that Bin Laden had managed to spite us by dying a couple weeks earlier, and that this was probably the source of the 12/13-12/26 discrepancy.
Kiki,
Mike is right, the people, collectively, never learn. People follow their leaders orders into war against people who mean them no ill, and the leaders are never in danger, only the peons who buy it die. This manipulation was detailed in almost every culture over 2000 years ago.Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Well I can tell you one thing I have 100% confidence in, regarding this whole situation.
The lingering aroma of rodent is unmistakeable.
One can argue the nomenclature, species, location and identity of said rodent, but that it is there, is something I have absolute certainty of.
In lieu of direct evidence, all you have to go on is trust and credibility, but I am of the firm opinion your own olfactory examination concurs with mine.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
Just because that was pretty awesome.
I want to add something else. Anthony has a point that all information is tentative, and I concur. I would only append that by saying that all things are not equally tenuous.
To Frem's I would add just that all crime is motive means and opportunity, and while that applies to 9.11 itself, it applies to the survival and death of OBL. Who had a motive for keeping him alive? How about for killing him? We have to realized that not only can this be falsified because he's already dead, it could also be done if he was alive, but captive somewhere (I doubt this, I suspect he's dead) but that would be an alternative explanation for his silence, albeit an unlikely one.
As for motive, the Israeli piece seemed credible to me in part because they had a motive for him being alive, and little incentive to kill him off. The ultimate motive to keep him alive is that if he is dead, or imprisoned, and you can *be* him, then he *is* Emmanuel Goldstein. Remember, it's not just our own people who can be fooled by our sleight of hand, the enemy can be just as susceptible.
The motives for killing him off now are so myriad that it's probably just the balance of values. His value as a papermache opponent (there has to be a TV trope for this) had declined, and the need for a victory that boosted moral, justified the invasion of pakistan and justified torture (Notice the NYT credited torture for getting this info?) etc. just overwhelmed the value.
I actually considered that this particular trump card (so to speak) would be pulled by the Bush admin occurred to me many times. The one I most expected was in the 2004 re-election, I was anticipating almost the identical stunt to the one which just unfolded, but I gather that he had a gentlemen's agreement from Kerry to lose the election, so he didn't need to kill off E.G. who was still of use to him.
ETA: If we had zombies, we'd have used them already
ETA2: I see that rodent comment is going to go down as the most quoted one in FFF history.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
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Byte,Quote:
How come I’m not seeing this ANYWHERE?? I see anger, confusion, legislators saying we need to “re-evaluate” our relationship with Pakistan, but nowhere have I heard of ANYONE even suggesting we go to war with them. What am I missing? Also, what “threats” is America making? Not to give them money I’ve heard; not to trust them, certainly, but those aren’t threats which necessarily lead to war.
People are already gearing up for a war with PakistanQuote:
People are already gearing up for a war with PakistanQuote:
That’s how I see it, too: diplomatic posturing. It’s pretty much what we see from time to time, be it with North Korea, Iran, Russia, whatever. I’m glad to see there are others who aren’t so quick to rush to judgment that what’s said between nations has to lead to war.
From where I sit that is not gearing up for war at all. It's just posturing.
I also agree with Cav that Obama’s statement was necessary, especially given what hay the GOP would have made of ANYTHING less insofar as “Democrats are soft on security” or somesuch. Just more of his usual cow-towing; we’ve seen enough of it by now that it’s not hard to understand.
I don’t find the Pakistan bashing unusual at all. They’ve been off-again, on-again “allies” for a long time now, and I think it’s only natural when this happened that people would be pissed off at them...something some are making great hay with, for numerous possible reasons.Quote:
A good point. I explained some of the reasons why not a lot (I any) questions would be asked about the house and who occupied it, but that seems to have gone unnoticed even here, much less in the (I would say more ignorant) wider media. I saw some reporter standing next to the compound walls and waving to show how high they were. They were almost EXACTLY the same height as the compound walls around our home in Afghanistan. We didn’t have barbed wire at the top, I will give you, but the height of the compound walls, in two countries where many, many people live behind equally high walls, made me grimace when I saw it. Sure, Americans aren’t used to compound walls, but every American and other foreigner in Kabul lived that way, except the Russians. They all lived within ONE building, also surrounded by high compound walls.
Was the U.S. government "in on" the Unabomber? Were we all "in on" D.B. Cooper? After all, they got away with it for years, right here in our own country, right? How could that happen?
Byte, this saddens me:Quote:
If it’s something you can’t help, why waste the time and energy being nervous about it? That’s been my point when so many threads here have been focused on Muslim extremists, Islam, etc., etc. It’s not something that is likely to affect our individual lives, in fact the odds are strongly against it affecting ANY of us, so why obsess about it and focus on the worst?
I'm going to continue being nervous, it's not really something I can help
DT, it’s been going back and forth whether they’ll release the photo of a dead bin Laden; today I hear they’re not going to. So where did you see one?Quote:
the death photo hair is dark, not greyQuote:
Not necessarily. Everything is subjective, so how much weight we put on one fact or another, and why, almost always is affected by our subjective beliefs. You yourself spoke of “cherry picking” what to believe...
When people have looked into something a great deal, they tend to speak with more certaintyQuote:
I find that very confusing, since you toss around conclusions you’ve come to as if they ARE facts, things like starting a world war, for example.
it means their datapoints they would consider to be more solid, it doesn't make them right, especially in their conclusions, which are the least certain things of all
As to hiding bin Laden’s death, I reject your theory out of hand. I maintain that Bush would have ADORED to trumpet bin Laden’s death, w
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Wow, this thread has people agreeing on stuff. I'm jumping ship.
DT: we probably need people who want to keep the AI in the box as much as we need people who would release it.
Niki:
Quote:
I see anger, confusion, legislators saying we need to “re-evaluate” our relationship with Pakistan, but nowhere have I heard of ANYONE even suggesting we go to war with them. What am I missing? Also, what “threats” is America making? Not to give them money I’ve heard; not to trust them, certainly, but those aren’t threats which necessarily lead to war.
The public, mostly. Happy posted some response he read on a friend's facebook about how Pakistan ought to watch their backs less America decides to group them with Osama's friends, my parents are of the firm opinion we should turn Afghanistan AND Pakistan into glass... You hear enough whispering and hostility from the public and you start to wonder where it's coming from and who's feeding it.
I can't help being NERVOUS, I'm paranoid and have anxiety disorder, and I'm a bitter cynic on top of that. But I really don't want us to go to war and I am concerned about nuclear weapons.
Quote:
This I a dichotomy. How can our officers command Pakistani troops if we’re at war with Pakistan?? That doesn’t make sense, in any context. War is where two forces FIGHT each other, not where one force commands the troops of the other force... You also say Pakistan’s government is a puppet government set up by the US. Again, then how can that put us at war with them? You seem to be contradicting yourself.
Not necessarily. The government of Pakistan is different from the people of Pakistan. We're technically at war with the Pashtun, who live in Pakistan. We have some Pakistan forces we're working with, and we have a Pakistan president whose been on our side, but they're starting to turn against us as well.
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