I'd like to discuss this theory rationally

POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 17:48
VIEWED: 17233
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KWICKO

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 6:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

So essentially we have a bunch of people saying he was 'probably' dead before, and a bunch of people saying they killed him now.

We have the fact that he was 'probably' very ill, and 'probably' would have died from his illnesses before he could be killed.

I can embrace skepticism. I wonder what causes people to vehemently declare this conspiracy theory as truth? Where is the skepticism? It seems one should be skeptical round-robbin in 360 degrees.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

I hear ya. In the end, I'm not sure it really matters whether he died Sunday or September 12, 2001. By confirming his death, we have effectively admitted that we won't have the IDEA of Bin Laden to hoist up as a national bogeyman anymore. I'll count that as a minor "win", and take it for that.

It doesn't end terrorism, it won't end fanaticism - in fact, there may be a short-term INCREASE in incidents in the aftermath of this announcement of his death.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 6:42 PM

Hello,

I am filled with many doubts. I doubt OBL was responsible for 9-11. I doubt that he was utterly uninvolved. I doubt that we just killed him. I also doubt that he died years ago. I doubt that he was paralyzed by illness. I doubt that he had no prognosis for improvement or recovery. I doubt that he could have recovered while on the run, to survive for a decade.

Doubt, doubt, doubt.

As recently as last month, I read an article that declared we were withholding billions from Pakistan.

-=-=-=-=-

I can easily see our man talking to their man, and saying, "We're done monkeying around. We need to resolve this situation now to facilitate policy. So, no more dough till we get what we want."

And I can see their man saying, "The situation is complicated. We can't be seen handing him over to you, or offering you any aid that appears too tangible or too real."

And I can see our man saying, "I understand. Hand him over. We'll start an investigation about your shoddy cooperation, we'll raise a bit of hell about it, and we'll question your friendship. You'll be seen as slime who plays both sides, fattening yourself at our expense."

And I can see their man nodding, "Just the way we like it. I'll have a location for you within the hour. Now... about that money?"

-=-=-=-=-=-

As a person of imagination, I can imagine all kinds of things. I can even come up with motives. Such as, we may want out of Afghanistan and Pakistan, but need a win to balance the loss in the public eye. Many people think Bin Laden is important. People think that's the reason we've got boots and bombs all over creation. It's silly, of course, but that's what they've been programmed with. So, I've got lots of pet theories and ideas.

But none of them are real. They're not real because I am surrounded by interesting curiosities, probablies, maybies, and why nots... but no hard evidence.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 6:45 PM

Quote:
but no hard evidence.

Agreed.

Why people keep addressing this to me, I haven't the foggiest. You asked a question, and I answered honestly.

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 6:48 PM

" I don't know how much more obvious I can get with "I don't quite believe either story."

Hello Byte,

I feel the same way, and I didn't mean to suggest that you do not. But like Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, I am always flabbergasted when people declare the theory as unshakable fact. There are a lot more of them than I'd think, utterly skeptical of everything except their one thing. A thing based, usually, on a bag full of questions with no answers, rather than a bag full of answers.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

THEHAPPYTRADER

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 7:30 PM

I'm not an expert on Islamic traditions, but don't they have some form of something about being buried within 24 hours of their death? Now, this asshole may not have deserved this kind of respect, but the way we treat our enemies says a lot about our character. That's why I don't make a big fuss over the lack of a body.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 7:47 PM

Not necessarily. There's really only a time frame on the bathing the body, and their version of a viewing for the body, and the amount of time people are allowed to publicly mourn (though not too much). I see no time frame given for taking the body to its burial location.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_funeral

Burial at sea is meant only as a last resort, the custom is all attempts should be made to bury the body in the ground.

But even that doesn't bother me. It's really the confirmation thing I have an issue with. No claim can be substantiated if only one person or group is making it.

Sorry Anthony. Guess I'm grumpy.

NIKI2

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 9:19 PM

Byte: Apologies. I tend to hit "reply" to the last post in a thread, because I'm usually responding to more than one person, so it doesn't matter to which POST I'm responding. I'm guessing that's how you thought I was responding to you, which I wasn't. I was responding either generally or to the person I directed the remark. Mea culpa.

But I AM responding to your most recent. If that's the case, then I would say they dumped him at sea singularly to avoid a "shrine" where his body lay, and making the excuse that it's Muslim custom. Although, if there was no country which would accept the body...which is questionable to me. Neither would surprise me.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

HKCAVALIER

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 9:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
HK,

We've been posting that he was dead for years. But this operation smells exactly like CIA BS, it's too pat, and there's no body, we suddenly lucked out?

Hey DT,

This is kinda the high strangeness of conversating with you. How is "we've been posting that he was dead for years" relevant? I know well what you've been posting for years. It troubles me that the fact you've been posting a thing for years implies that it is correct in any way.

"We suddenly lucked out?" Um. Yeah. Basically.

Quote:
For "Why do it?" You're right it helps Obama's re-election chances, but it does two other things:

If OBL were in Pakistan, and he did capture him there, he can use this as a justification for invading, which is otherwise just a blatantly treasonous act or a war crime.

The other is its a massive distraction that has totally kicked Turkey and Egypt switching sides to side with Iran off the front page.

I think you throw around "war crime" a little too liberally. Pakistan is *this* close to being a failed state, and therefore *barely* a sovereign nation at all. The situation is...complicated...to say the least.

AND...

We will not go to war with Pakistan. Not too long ago you were convinced that we were going to war with Iran and you pointed at all manner of "proof" and we are not going to war with Iran. Looks to me like you float a premise, and then throw everything and the kitchen sink at it to lend it credibility.

Quote:
Obama admitted twice during the campaign that he had lied, so don't think he's above lying. The question is whether he's using this to get us out of the war, or justify war, and we won't know that for a couple weeks. Depends on how he uses the information. To me, whether or not the information is true is really less relevant in the long run. I'm pretty sure it's not, but I'm waiting to what end Obama uses it.

And I'm not saying the man never lies. I'm saying this lie, that we've killed OBL is too big. It's like lying about going to the moon. And the reasons to tell this particular lie are way too specious for me to take them seriously at this point. Big Brother simply doesn't captures Emmanuel Goldstein.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 10:07 PM

Niki: Hmm. That's a good explanation. Still bugged by the lack of confirmation though. We really need that confirmation to prove anything. And that goes for either report.

HKCav: 1) People are already gearing up for a war with Pakistan, it seems accusations that Pakistan wasn't helping us and comments along the lines of they're next are rampant.

2) Just because we aren't at war with Iran doesn't mean we won't be in the future. Considering the state of relations between our countries, pressure from Israel because of the nuclear issue, the fact that Obama said that he wouldn't take a military option off the table, AND that it's a constant undercurrent in global politics, this wasn't an unreasonable thing to call at all.

3) Are you saying OBL wasn't an Emmanuel Goldstein?

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 10:27 PM

Hello,

For my own part, I consider any angry words we have for Pakistan to be something of a razzle-dazzle, and not at all indicative of our plans for the region. I do not think we're about to expand our war operations. I have no evidence either way, though.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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