Don't pet the 180 pound doggie...

POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 00:12
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PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:17 AM

'We wolves are from the Federal Govt and we're here to KILL'

Federal Wolves – State’s Rights

by Rep Phil Hart

Today there are many issues that confront our political institutions. We are living in interesting times. For state governments the big issues are balancing budgets and federal government encroachment. And for the state of Idaho, the face of federal government encroachment is that of a Canadian Gray Wolf.

Under the authority of the Endangered Species Act, in the mid-70’s Washington D.C. bureaucrats began to contemplate the introduction of wolves into parts of the so called lower 48 states. The reason that this was even a possibility was because the original settlers of the country, who had lived with wolves, decided to get rid of them. Such people will tell you that wolves are a menace, and dangerous on top of that.

Over the objections of the Idaho Legislature, the governor of Idaho, and Idaho’s congressional delegation, in 1995 the federal Fish and Wildlife Service introduced 35 Canadian Gray Wolves into central Idaho. A like number of wolves were introduced into Yellowstone Park in Wyoming, just across the Idaho border.

The plan was to protect this population of Gray Wolves such that their numbers would increase to 300 and at least 30 breeding pairs across the three state region of Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. The Idaho Legislature, with a gun to its head, agreed to this scheme in a 2002 Wolf Management Plan it ratified; while at the same time passing a resolution stating that its real desire was to remove the wolves from Idaho all together. The DC bureaucrats were going to introduce the wolves no matter what the state of Idaho wanted; and the negotiated 2002 Wolf Management Plan reflected Idaho’s effort to at least have a say in the process.

Idaho is really not anti-wolf. We liked our Idaho Timberwolves. At the time of the federal wolf introduction, Idaho had about 80 Timberwolves, and they were increasing in number. The Idaho Timberwolf weighed about 85 pounds at maturity. It ran in packs of two. It survived off of small game. And they were very skittish around humans. At least two members of our House of Representatives saw these Timberwolves prior to the introduction of the Canadian Gray Wolf by the federal government. We could have managed the Idaho Timberwolf back to so-called recovery levels.

The Canadian Gray Wolf was introduced as a “nonessential experimental” species as defined by the Endangered Species Act. The ESA only allows the introduction of an “experimental species” when the original native species is extinct. But the Idaho Timberwolf was not extinct; we had about 80 of them. These Timberwolves were documented by recognized experts. No problem for the federal government, they just solved that dilemma by lying. Consequently, the introduction of the Canadian Gray Wolf into Idaho was based on fraud.

It gets worse. Under the original agreement Idaho was to have 100 wolves with 10 breeding pairs (our share of the three state total of 300 wolves with 30 breeding pairs). That goal was achieved in about 2002. Today, nine years later the Canadian Gray Wolf is still listed as “endangered”. The wolf issue has been tied up in endless lawsuits promoted by the environmentalists. Demonizing the wolf opposition and litigating on the issue has proved to be a money making machine for these left of center folks. Each time the environmental advocacy groups file a pro-wolf lawsuit, they rake in the bucks and contribute to the mismanagement of the wolf introduction process.

Unlike the Idaho Timberwolf (which is now probably extinct having been either wiped out by or assimilated into the Canadian Gray Wolf population) the Canadian Gray Wolf weighs about 140 pounds at maturity. We have some close to 180 pounds running around the state at the moment. The Canadian Gray Wolf runs in packs of up to twenty wolves. For every one animal they kill to eat, these Canadian wolves kill about three more just for the fun of it. The biologists call it “sport-r

RIONAEIRE

Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:34 AM

That's a bummer if those Idaho timber wolves are extinct. :(

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, April 19, 2011 6:33 PM

Hello,

What is the record on Wolf Attacks in Idaho from this imported species?

The danger of wolf attacks is listed as a prime motivator, but I didn't catch any reference to any. Just vague statements about Europe and Asia.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, April 19, 2011 8:30 PM

I wonder why all wolves on TV and the movies are half this size?

To brainwash that wolves are cute and cuddly, and beg the Feds to import this invasive species to your neck of the neighborhood?

Here's a coyote/wolf/dog literally 100 yards from my house this year in TN:

Was it killed to scare off the other wild dogs? Or was it raised by dope dealers then hung to scare off the natives from their pot farm? The land is owned by a state political dynasty...

Was it the wild dog/coyote/wolf that was adopted by a herd of deer in my yard, and just minding it's own business as a good neighbor?

I dont support mass slaughter of wild animals, not even predators. Sheeple should be required to carry guns by law at all times, or be fined a higher tax. Then they can shoot only predators during imminent attack. Otherwise leave em the frak alone.

But the Feds must be arrested for importing deadly invasive species, starting with Dictator Hussein Obama, every employee of his regime, and every Demoratic Operative in every city and state who voted for him. Then shoot them by firing squad, after waterboarding 183 times to confess at a military tribunal at Gitmo.

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, April 19, 2011 8:37 PM

Hello,

Most wolves I see depicted in television and cinema are shown to be large, aggressive animals for purposes of the plot.

You failed to address a singular issue I raised in my previous post.

Why are you really posting this stuff?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, April 19, 2011 8:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Why are you really posting this stuff?

1. Giant wolves are amazing, and I've never seen a photo of one that big.

2. I have seen large wild dogs/coyotes/wolves in my yard.

3. I hear bloodcurdling screams of women in my yard at night...but nobody is there.

4. A neighbor's 160 pound dog was killed, butchered and eaten in the field next to my house...

5. 200 pound mountain lions have also been seen nearby, imported by the Feds, than can easily kill and eat a human.

6. Feds are scumbag criminal terrorist traitor pedophile perverts who must be stopped at any cost, and this state legislator is drafting a bill to do so.

NIKI2

Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:35 PM

This is propagandist bullshit, and some of it out-and-out lies. The photo made me sick, the article sicker. But I read it, because I care about this issue. No, there have been no attacks on humans by wolves in Idaho. Or any other state. Their EXCUSE is "It is not a question of if, but only a matter of when tragedy will strike, in the form of fatal wolf attacks on humans in Idaho and other states with proliferating wolf populations."

It's their cattle/sheep/etc. that they want protected by killing the wolves, despite Defenders of Wildlife paying $1.4 million for losses from wolves and grizzly bears since it began in 1987, and now the federal government having created a wolf predation compensation program. It was turned over to the feds in late 2010 and gee whiz, less than six months later propaganda about wolves in Idaho is showing up everywhere...evil wolf! It's about money, and it’s sickening. It’s also their own desire to have no competition hunting. As of this February:

Quote:
Milt Turley wants to shoot a wolf ... Five months after buying an Idaho wolf tag, Turley’s disappointed that it’s still unfilled ... He said wolves compete against him for his favorite meat. The 65-year-old has bagged 72 elk in the mountains of Idaho and Montana, shooting his first elk at age 11 near Pine Creek in Shoshone County ... State officials say it’s unlikely that the 220-wolf quota will be met by March 31. Through Tuesday, hunters had killed 155 wolves.

Wolves were virtually extinct in the lower 48 and are being brought back now, partly because the prey species overpopulated to the point of unhealthiness without predators to keep them in check. They’re doing pretty well in a number of states, but that doesn’t change the propaganda efforts of those who want to eradicate them.

The article is full of lies. Idaho didn’t like its Timberwolves (which ARE extinct, and have been for decades, so obviously they weren’t “increasing in number prior to the legislation”). It states quite clearly “The ESA only allows the introduction of an “experimental species” when the original native species is extinct.” They NEVER would have returned them to sustainable numbers even if they hadn’t been extinct; they even SAY they would have wiped them out

Quote:
The Idaho Legislature, with a gun to its head, agreed to this scheme in a 2002 Wolf Management Plan it ratified; while at the same time passing a resolution stating that its real desire was to remove the wolves from Idaho all together.

So much for “loving” their Timberwolves!

The numbers given are also bullshit.

Quote:
Idaho Fish and Game is counting as a wolf pack what may be just a temporary hunting groups of wolves, probably with the result of double counting.

http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/idaho-eleven-years-with-wolves.htm

Quote:
The US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) reintroduced fifteen wolves into Idaho in 1995. At that time, the Idaho Legislature strictly limited Idaho Department of Fish and Game (IDFG) involvement with wolves and wolf recovery

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2004/articles2/idaho_wolf_manage
ment.htm

If they’re so prolific, why aren’t more of them being killed? Idaho just opened a season on wolves, that’s what this is all about. It’s a big issue in Idaho, politically and financially. They no doubt drool over the hopes of wolf pelts, just as they did in times gone by, and just as that guy does who doesn’t want competition with his “sport” hunting, just as Sarah wants with her AERIAL wolf hunts. Bitch.

The article he posted, by the way, also shows up at http://thehivedaily.com/blog/2011/04/18/freak-250-pound-federal-wolves
-stalk-idaho/, where you can buy GOLD, gee whiz, and they state the wolf was “250 lbs” and the headline is “250 Pound “Federal Wolves” Stalk Idaho” I don’t know what the hell they mean by “feral wolves”, as wolves are a wild critter, so there’s no such thing. “Feral” is for domesticated animals

NIKI2

Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:51 PM

Neighbor's 160-lb dog was killed, eh? And you think a wolf did it? Not more likely a 200-lb. cougar? Unless you've actually seen wolf packs around, that is...and by the way,

Quote:
Timber wolves will generally hunt is packs of 12 or more during the non-breeding season. They feed on anything that is available. They primarily hunt birds and mammals such as deer and caribou.

That's only during non-breeding season; as only the alpha male and female mate in a pack of wolves, 30 is inconceivable. Anyone ever seen a pack of more than 20 on any nature show??

Quote:
Pack size is at its smallest in early spring, when the ravages of winter have depleted its numbers. This is also the time of year when young wolves sometimes defect from the pack and go off on their own to try to start new packs

http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/wolves/wolffacts.html

Few alpha males will allow a pack to get very big; it requires too much effort to feed that many and, come Winter, is almost impossible. The state with, I believe, the largest number of wolves and wolf packs is Minnesota, and even IT never found one that big:

Quote:
This report documents a pack of 22-23 Wolves (Canis lupus) in central Minnesota. This is larger than the largest pack previously observed on the mainland in the Midwestern U.S. during 650 wolf pack-years.

http://www.mnforsustain.org/wolf_record_large_minnesota_pack.htm

There are tales of the "Druid Pack" which reached almost 40, but even then it was only transitory as leadership changed and wolves left and joined the pack.

By the way, "Timber Wolf" and "Grey Wolf" are interchangeable, and both can get up to 175 lbs.:

Quote:
Other common name: "Gray Wolf". Family: "Canidae". Species classification: "Canus lupis".

Both quotes from http://www.bearcountryusa.com/animals/animal_info.php?id=17

Quote:
The grey wolf, also known as the timber wolf, prefers the open tundra and forests of British Columbia. Although they once inhabited most of North America, now distribution occurs in only Alaska, Canada, and parts of the U.S.A. Human fear, superstition, and outright hatred of this animal decreased its population drastically and eradicated it from 50% of its former range.

http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/wilderness/animals/greywolf.htm

Quote:
Timberwolf: Any subspecies of Canis lupus (Gray Wolf), which inhabits forested areas

Wikipedia, under "Timber Wolf"

Quote:
I hear bloodcurdling screams of women in my yard at night...but nobody is there.

This has what to do with anything? Are you saying wolves are screaming in your back yard?? Or wolves are coming at night and killing something, and it's screaming?? If so, what's around in numbers that can "scream"?

Yeah, we've got cougar too...none of which were "imported" and none of which have killed anyone except a jogger or two who ran through their territory. One was just seen down Stanford way...they killed it, of course.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

RIONAEIRE

Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:45 AM

I think Niki's right about the rarity of wolf attacks on people, it doesn't happen very often. I tried to comment on the part of the article I related to, I don't like the idea of species disappearing, so that's all I commented on. But I think Niki probably knows a lot about this because animals are important to her.

Its true that wolves sometimes kill livestock, so people do get frustrated with them roaming near farms.
When I was in high school I went to the zoo with this special program and I was allowed to go back behind the wolf exhibit, where we could get really close, several feet away. I talked to them, they howled at me and I howled back and we had an understanding of sorts. That summer when my dad and cousins and I went to the zoo I told them I could call the wolves. I howled and they came out of their enclosure right away to see me.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:40 AM

Hello,

Yes, I would guess that more people are harmed by dogs than by wolves. The concern seems hyperbolic at best.

Best solution to the concern? If you go into the wilderness (or choose to live in it), bring a weapon, a communication device, and a friend. A good suggestion regardless of wolves.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

PIRATENEWS

Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:27 AM

We need giant wolves to replace the 95% of humans the Feds plan to make extinct for the New World Odor.

NIKI2

Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:43 PM

Oh, yeah, Riona--wasn't that neat?? I got to be friends with the wolves at the SF Zoo one Summer...I drove Jim's son to and from the Zoo to participate in a Summer program, and spent the time he was in it at the wolf enclosure rather than drive all the way back. There was a hole at the back of the enclosure that the wolves had dug...they could get one nose at a time through it and I could get my whole arm through. We got to be good buddies.

I've also met numerous "pet" wolves here in Marin. I never knew there were so many until we opened our pizza parlor and used it to collect money for various environmental and animal-rights causes. That led to a number of the people who had wolves coming forth, and some inviting us to meet them. In every case, it was a very special experience I'll never forget.

There are also a few wolf conservationists who take wolves to schools and let kids meet them...and in almost every case, they get the kids to sit in a circle and how, and of course the wolf joins in. I think it's great SOME kids are getting educated about the realities of wolves, rather than being left to be indoctrinated by lies.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, April 20, 2011 6:03 PM

Ooh, neat Riona. You know the wolves don't howl out of aggression, but to identify their own or sometimes just to "sing" for the heck of it?

You're a wolf! :)

I can talk dog, and cat, but wolf has been eluding me. Used to be able to do a real nice wolf howl, but I never was able to get them to call me back.

NIKI2

Wednesday, April 20, 2011 6:04 PM

Anthony: "MORE people are harmed by dogs"? Are you kidding? VERIFIED wolf attacks on humans are few, and even through ancient history turn out to be more often myth than truth, OR were attacks by rabid wolves, whereas dog attacks happen virtually every DAY around the world!

Eurasian wolves were more aggressive than any other, historically, but there were reasons for that and today I don't think it holds true.

Quote:
Attacks due to provocation have occurred, usually involving shepherds defending their flocks, though none recorded fatalities.[2] Unprovoked attacks by non-rabid wolves are rare, but have happened. The majority of victims of unprovoked healthy wolves tend to be women and children.[2] Historically, attacks by healthy wolves tended to be clustered in space and time, indicating that human-killing was not a normal behavior for the average wolf, but rather an atypical behavior that single wolves or packs developed and maintained until they were killed.

Wiki

With the exception of one attack on a French shepherd in 2001, modern Western Europe has had very few attacks and no recent fatalities. "Lupus", a German group of wildlife biologists, says it has documented 250 encounters between people and wolves in the Lusatia region and there were no problems in any of the cases. Admittedly this is because wolves have been wiped out in so many places... The opinion of wolves hasn't changed much, but education and efforts to fight the stereotype has helped a lot in recent times. Unfortunately, the stereotype will probably never die out (any more than the one about snakes), because Narnia, Harry Potter, and other movies will continue to use them as symbols of "evil".

Unquestionably, as their territory becomes less and less, they have become more habituated to humans and that makes for more aggressive behavior. As their territory becomes less and less, their food supply lessens as well, so they turn more to preying on domesticated animals. But wolves are one of the smartest predator species; they don't attack humans indiscrimately. Dogs are made more neurotic by living WITH us, so their behavior is less predictable, and there will always be dog attacks.

Most of the recent wolf attacks have been on people who are walking their dogs, which the wolves consider prey. Even those haven't ended up in deaths, and most of them were broken off by the human making noise and frightening the wolves away.

Your suggestions are good ones, Anthony, and I'd add a couple more. One doesn't even need a gun; pepper spray would work fine. And, just as for bears, making noise or wearing a bell of some sort will keep most wildlife away from you, predator or otherwise. If one does encounter a wolf, making yourself as big as possible, waiving your arms around and hollering will deter almost all predator attacks...they say it works for bears, too, but I don't think I ever want to be in the position of trying it!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NIKI2

Wednesday, April 20, 2011 6:09 PM

Byte, you should have huskies. They'd "teach" you! Or better yet, Malamutes. They're the ones who don't bark, but howl. Huskies do both--plus an incredible myriad of other "communication" sounds. They're hysterical.

I saw one of those groups of kids howling with the wolf, it was sooo neat! And thank you, yes, just like coyotes, wolves howl differently for many, many reasons. There is currently a guy working on recording wolf howls and giving them to farmers to decrease predation on livestock (did we have a thread about thsi recently?); it's actually WORKING, and scientists are exploring it further. Would beat the hell out of shooting them...tho' the hunters (and some farmers) would continue to prefer the latter. Especially in Idaho/Montana. Assholes.

By the way, the article initially posted is because Idaho is working on getting the wolf de-listed and starting sport hunting of them again. There's a ton of propaganda out there about it right now. It's not about any new or even existing SERIOUS problem, it's about politics and a certain mentality.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:35 PM

Idiots.

The best way to not get your ass chewed on by a wolf is to understand wolves!

Knowledge of the behavior and characteristics of the local wildlife you may run into is for a fact more effective than a grenade launcher, but try telling some idiots that, like hunters who don't even know a fuckin thing about deer to begin with, not even what they taste like!
(Ok, if you ain't gonna EAT it, IMHO why the hell are you gonna shoot it ?)

There's actually damn few animals that'll attack a human, and outside of critical starvation, only a bare handful of reasons - so it's not beyond the pale to expect the bloody fools likely to run across those animals to know them.

We had a wolf come up on us right after MickT shot a good sized deer and was climbing down to fetch the game rack to haul it off on, and said furball came sniffing about, so I dropped to one knee, fluffed my coat out and gave him some teeth and a growl (This is MINE, piss off!), he backs off a bit, marks the spot (Yeah, yeah, but leave me some, will ya ?) and so on and so forth - it's not to damn hard to understand, or learn, for that matter, a lot of it is very inuitive, you ask me.

Most of them ranchers are idiots anyhow, if you want to chase off wolves, don't use a dog, get a skunk - wolves KNOW what those are, and will not under most circumstances, mess with em, and if you can't, a paintball gun loaded with stinkballs works just fine - not only will they remember to stay the hell away from where they got smacked with one, they'll encourage other wolves to stay away too, duh.

Humans, meh... it's a wonder we survive, sometimes.

Oh, and cats sing too, Molly always has, from soon after we rescued her, although given she went from horrible conditions to spoiled rotten, I wonder sometimes if she doesn't think she kicked it and landed in kitty heaven.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:40 PM

Heh, one of our cats sings too, a male. I just figured he was caterwauling despite being neutered. So female cats'll do it too. Interesting.

Heh, I've had to get my cats to respect my food in a similar way, especially our somewhat chubby girl. She's a big eater that one. But it turns out the first part of "Mine" can sound just like an angry cat in the right circumstances, and then you just add some hunching over the plate. Then she gets it.

My brother's excitable dog also seems to understand my "okay, knock it off" growl.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, April 21, 2011 12:33 AM

Hee hee hee, I HAVE to ask...

So, does he sing soprano now ?

-F

BYTEMITE

Thursday, April 21, 2011 1:19 AM

Like a choir boy. Poster cat for an angelic temperament. He can barely even "hurt" his mouse toys, though that might be more him being an incompetent hunter than anything.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, April 21, 2011 1:24 AM

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

RIONAEIRE

Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:11 AM

The thing I did was just a morning long program, not like zoo teens or the longer programs, it was sort of a fluke really, but I remember enjoying it. My older brother did zoo teens and my little brother does zoo day camp each summer for a week, I think he will do zoo teens too when he gets older (a volunteer program where kids get to help take care of the animals and learn about them too). Raven has always really enjoyed learning about animals, but sadly this is seeming to dominish as he gets older, he likes his videogames more now, :( Not that viedogames are bad, just that he seems to enjoy them more than other forms of entertainment lately.

Niki, That is a good idea to have recordings of wolves to keep them away, like a territory howel to keep them out of the area.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

TRUTHFUL1

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:07 PM

Wow! A wolf that big is so rare and yet some imbecile with a gun killed it.

People lie, nature is honest.

NIKI2

Wednesday, June 15, 2011 12:12 AM

This came all the way back from April to say THAT? Wow...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off