Oppositional Defiant Disorder

POSTED BY: Bytemite
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 04:51
VIEWED: 6599
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SIGNYM

Sunday, February 6, 2011 4:41 AM

Are you interested in mine? Because I have a daughter with behavioral issues. Or will you dismiss me as being an enemy?

SIGNYM

Sunday, February 6, 2011 5:36 AM

Well, see, you really don't want to hear the voice of hard experience, do you Byte?

But, I'm going to tell you anyway.

My dd had a brain bleed when she was born, a bleed so bad it should have killed her- but didn't. As a result of her bleed, she developed a rare syndrome... not hydrocephalus but rarer... which caused unrelenting seizures and regression. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it was heartbreaking to watch her disappear under an onslaught of unending seizures into a mute, trembling, shell of a child who was lost in her own house. Trust me... I KNOW that the brain can screw up.

She also became extremely hyperactive. Oh yeah... and oppositional. She couldn't keep her mind on a single activity for more than ten seconds at a time. I was offered the option of Ritalin. But because I knew the cause of her problem, I chose not to medicate for that particular issue.

I have to say, that keeping her attention was like fishing a 50-lb fish with a 10-lb line. Too hard, I would lose her. Too easy, she would be bored and I would lose her. You have no frigging IDEA what we went through. But we did try non-prescription approaches. Now, I did aggressively pursue medical treatments for her other problems. NON-medication was not an option. Steroids and dopamine-preserving drugs proved to be the cure. She is still brain-damaged, but at least her brain chemistry is altered... permanently, one hopes... into functionality. She talks and even talks back, she finds her way around, she learns. We love her. She loves us. We're glad she's "with us" again.

DREAMTROVE

Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Did you happen to watch this Firefly show? It's pretty cool I here.

I'm sorry, I'm a fan of the world. I like it as it is, unmodified, uncontrolled, chaotic, not hydrogenated methylated chloro-fluoro-ethoxylated. Just good old planet earth, with people. Not a clone army of zombies. Ordinary, crazy, dangeous, funny, lovable people.
Awwww. You just gave me the warm fuzzies.

As you say, "Spot on."

-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

Thanks

Magon,

that was of course part of the point. So did Tchaikovsky, and Nietzsche was institutionalized. But if they had all been "normal" we never would have heard of any of them.

Aside from being schitzo, Van Gogh had a terrible drinking problem, and was terrible with women. Not sure that these things are connected.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
The human mind. We're not talking about a neurodegenerative condition here, a malformed brain that will cause disability and death, we're talking about the human mind.
Where does the mind end and the brain begin?

Easy. Brain is hardward, mind is software. If there's a physical problem, that's brain damage. Like a stroke, aneurysm, or tumor, or alzheimers. Something is structurally wrong. The mind is effected by cognitive patterns and neurotransmitters. The latter is fixable, the former, alas, not yet.

Byte,

Vincent was a huge liability to Theo, who had a life, a wife, a music and art career. But he never made any money that I know of. Theo supported him. If Vincent had been normal, perhaps Theo would have been someone, who knows. But it's not going to alter my outlook. I'd rather have a world with Terry Pratchett and Terry Gilliam.

And yes, byte, well said: Everyone has to make their own choice. If they choose to be sane and not artistic, that's their choice. But society should not correct them. I made that choice once, and I regret it, I hope it can be reversed.

Oh, and yes, Kudos, Byte: you created the thread that really lays bear where the core difference lies: I think you, me, frem and cts are all essentially falling here on the side of chaos as the natural order of the world, magon and sig are falling on the side of human-imposed order on the world. I haven't really scanned to see where others fall, but it shows a core belief deep down which underlies the differences I have with socialists, and it turns out not to be political, left right, or social-justice oriented, but in fact a radically different world view.

Sig,

That's brain damage. It's physical. It's not the same as psychological problems. But that's a horrible story.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I still don't really understand. I wasn't calling you harsh and punitive, I was refuting what I thought was a claim that a lot of rules, structures, and discipline can be effective at reigning in a kid with a behavioural problem. It doesn't appear to be the case with ODD, as the parenting method is a cause for it.

I'm afraid classification of parenting styles into categories means absolutely nothing to me, as does an unsubstantiated claim, with no links to further studies or citations, that one works better than any other. I suspect all families are different, and all children are different, and people will revert to whatever feels natural to them on a case by case basis.

Do you have kids with behavioural issues? If so, I'd be interested to hear your personal experience with that. I don't know what these links are you're giving me.

Why should my links be any different to yours? I'm not expressing bewilderment at what you have provided. In fact one of yours was just a whole heap of advertising junk. Not very relevant.

I'm sorry that you can't get the idea of parenting styles, although I'm not sure why it should mean nothing to you. Research seems to indicate that different parenting styles result in different outcomes for children. Of course parents will adapt for different children's needs, and parent as they see fit, but basically an authorative style seems to provide good outcomes for children, including children with behavioural issues.

I'm not going to link you to any research. Partly because a quick google should provide you with what you require and partly because when I have provided links to research, you've still dismissed what I have said because it conflicts with what you believe to be true.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, see, you really don't want to hear the voice of hard experience, do you Byte?

But, I'm going to tell you anyway.

My dd had a brain bleed when she was born, a bleed so bad it should have killed her- but didn't. As a result of her bleed, she developed a rare syndrome... not hydrocephalus but rarer... which caused unrelenting seizures and regression. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it was heartbreaking to watch her disappear under an onslaught of unending seizures into a mute, trembling, shell of a child who was lost in her own house. Trust me... I KNOW that the brain can screw up.

She also became extremely hyperactive. Oh yeah... and oppositional. She couldn't keep her mind on a single activity for more than ten seconds at a time. I was offered the option of Ritalin. But because I knew the cause of her problem, I chose not to medicate for that particular issue.

I have to say, that keeping her attention was like fishing a 50-lb fish with a 10-lb line. Too hard, I would lose her. Too easy, she would be bored and I would lose her. You have no frigging IDEA what we went through. But we did try non-prescription approaches. Now, I did aggressively pursue medical treatments for her other problems. NON-medication was not an option. Steroids and dopamine-preserving drugs proved to be the cure. She is still brain-damaged, but at least her brain chemistry is altered... permanently, one hopes... into functionality. She talks and even talks back, she finds her way around, she learns. We love her. She loves us. We're glad she's "with us" again.

Sorry to hear what you have been through, but glad that after all that your daughter has found a way to function in this world.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Oh, and yes, Kudos, Byte: you created the thread that really lays bear where the core difference lies: I think you, me, frem and cts are all essentially falling here on the side of chaos as the natural order of the world, magon and sig are falling on the side of human-imposed order on the world.

Nope. Not even close. Just think that there is somewhere between dosing everyone up to the eyeballs because they are not happy and letting people live with chronic mental illness which prevents them from functioning
,
Aint enough medicine in this whole world to get rid of chaos, and I wouldn't want it gone anyway.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:35 AM

Hey, come on, I was watching my grandma for a few hours there. I can't be on Fireflyfans all the time.

Let me read your post now. Yes, I am actually interested in hearing.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:46 AM

Sig, what you're telling me is potentially good news. 1) It sounds like the initial damage altered brain chemistry, but 2) it sounds like you found something to alter it into state that was liveable (no seizures, allows interaction with outside world).

It looks to me like my cousins brain chemistry has been altered into a Ritalin-dependent state, and also something has happened to increase aggression. Choosing the right treatment could alter it back permanently, it's a question of understanding what the changes are.

Going to still have to be very careful about approaching kid or parents or both. Also with research.

I have a lot to think about. Thank you for your story. I am glad for your daughter.

DREAMTROVE

Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:46 AM

Magon,

How *much* order you want to impose upon the world isn't really the question. I used to think that the socialists of the board just wanted to solve the same problems I did, just in a different manner. Now I see that there is truly an irreconcilable difference there. It's not personal, it's just an observation.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:51 AM

Ah I see, its the old 'when in doubt make some sweeping generalisations' time.

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