Oppositional Defiant Disorder
POSTED BY: Bytemite
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 04:51
VIEWED: 6599
PAGE 4 of 11
Well, that's the thing, up until late yesterday, I wasn't sure I was going to be able to talk to the kid, because like I said our families are a little estranged, and only coming back together because of the grandparent, and we live some distance apart.
So I thought I was only going to be able to talk to the parents about it.
His parents might bring him to see his grandmother, though. She's staying with us, and the two of them have a really good rapport. But you know how it is with kids and parents visiting. They let the kid talk for a while, then fobb them off on someone to "babysit" - me. That's probably my chance.
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I don't know him at all, so I can't possibly weigh in on whether medication is warranted. But I have a couple of questions: Is HE happier now than before? Is he able to pay attention to things other than motors? Is he still able to take things apart and put them back together? Does he sleep better? In other words, without putting YOUR personal reaction into the situation, is HE feeling better than before? Because you failed to address that part.
I don't know. I haven't been able to talk to him yet, but I plan to. And I planned to ask him these things.
If he's happy on the medication, I have to admit there's nothing I can do.
By all accounts before this one teacher he was a perfectly normal and healthy and well-adjusted boy. Because of that, that's where my main concern is that he's been misdiagnosed. I'm not just hearing that he's been diagnosed and reacting OH MY GOD HE'S ON MEDICINE! He doesn't have a HISTORY of acting out, so the whole scenario where he supposedly needs to be medicated doesn't smell right to me.
They're treating a problem that may not be on his end of the situation, and considering my concerns about messing up the brain chemistry, that's where I'm coming from.
I'll assess, if he's still struggling, I'll tell him what I think might be going on and let him hear an alternative viewpoint, and let him make his decisions.
Assuming I get to talk to him.
I guess the main reason why I'm so concerned about him is because for one he's family, and two he reminds me a lot of myself, just without the attitude problems I had at his age. I want to help him not go through what I went through.
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Might wanna remove the breakables first, Doll.
Cause if it's as I suspect - he's gonna be really, REALLY *pissed*, especially if he was lied to about what those pills really were, something else I hadn't thought to mention cause I was wiped out tired in that first post.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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Hmm. I was thinking we could play cooperative Smash Brothers or something on my old Nintendo 64. Apparently he's been getting angry at people just for looking at him, so I wanted to use something as a reasonable excuse to talk over, that wouldn't involve any threatening eye contact.
If he breaks a controller, I'd be okay with that. It's just a thing. But good you brought that up, if it happens I won't be surprised and more able to accept it right away.
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There's been some research to suggest Omega 3 oils and Vitamine E can help with the symptomatic problems from whatever brain chemistry they altered causing his aggression. I might ask him if he likes fish.
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You definitely touch on a highly poignant note, Frem, one that I can empathize with heavily. But, my circumstance was slightly different.
My kindergarten teacher told my parents that they should get me screening for ADHD when I was very young. My mom disagreed, because I was able to sit at the computer for long stretches of time without interruption - unaware of the effects that flickering light have on ADHD brains - so it went undiagnosed for quite some time. As I got older, and my grades seemed to reflect less and less how smart I was, eventually I confessed to my parents that I didn't feel in control, and that I wanted to talk to someone. I think that being the youngest of four affected the latency of their movement towards professional advice, simply because they'd dealt with three girls before me, all of rather wild temperament; simply put, any disruptive behavior was put off as being a part of growing up - aforementioned "kid" diagnosis.
I started taking Concerta, and noticed how different I felt: more focused, more driven, but also markedly less happy. Well, not so much "unhappy", but really muted and too calm. At some point I stopped taking my pills altogether, and simply conditioned myself to buckle down when I had to.
What strikes me about your first post, Frem, is the discussion of anger, or a reason to be upset. For me, at least in my first-hand experience, I'd say that kids with ADHD tend to be different on an emotional level as well as a logical/cognitive one. When I was young, I tended to be pretty petulant and misbehave often, and I think I was grappling with real issues that I couldn't describe - much as you mentioned in your post. Maybe having three other daughters distracted my parents so heavily that I felt neglected, or whatever - some mommy/daddy issue psychobabble. Either way, I was an upset kid that couldn't and didn't fit in until much later on in my K-12, and that "anger" you spoke of happened before my diagnosis.
Most of it stemmed from very powerful frustration. I felt stupid because my grades were so poor, and all my teachers would say "If he'd just do his homework he'd have straight A's," which was entirely depressing because I couldn't verbalize what challenges were stopping me from doing just that. On top of that frustration was the feeling that my parents - who, like most kids, I believed to be infallible - should have known and taken care of me, helped me to feel right inside. Unfortunately, by the time my parents started to notice, I hit that point in puberty when you hate people controlling your life and trying to step in and push their authority down your throat, so when my parents started to WANT to help me my teenage rebellion would have none of it. Like you said, Frem, I spent a lot of time fighting against my parents rallied authority, because I was their child and some blood obligation said I had to listen to them, and my condition laughed in the face of their oppressiveness. The hardest part is standing up and saying, "No, I have something really wrong with me here, and I don't know what it is or how to tell you. So stop talking and listen to me." It's scary, for sure.
Wow, well, I didn't mean to go all confessional on the thread. I do think, Byte, that maybe your cousin might be having some of these feelings, like he can't express his frustration because it's this nameless fear inside. Maybe he wants help in another form, or needs to talk about it, and the environment in which he lives is not conducive to such personal expression. In short, I wanted to try and convey some first-hand insight on the matter. I really think that if you begin asserting yourself as a positive presence in his life - someone to talk to - that it will make his highly personal struggle to find his voice all the easier. They're gonna need you, I think, a great deal. I can remember wanting someone on my side that I could talk to, and fortunately I did find a non-relative who told
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Would you take insulin away from a diabetic? Anti-convulsants away from a someone with seizures? Oxygen away from someone with fibrosis? Antibiotics away from pneumonia? Nature isn't perfect. There are a lot of things that go wrong: birth defects, infection, dementia, schizophrenia, autism. Even ADHD.
It's not like ADHD is a new diagnosis. Have you ever read "The Ransom of Red Chief"? It was written in 1910 and contains a perfect description of a boy with ADHDQuote:
He [the boy, who names himself Red Chief] made a during-dinner speech something like this:
"I like this fine. I never camped out before; but I had a pet 'possum once, and I was nine last birthday. I hate to go to school. Rats ate up sixteen of Jimmy Talbot's aunt's speckled hen's eggs. Are there any real Indians in these woods? I want some more gravy. Does the trees moving make the wind blow? We had five puppies. What makes your nose so red, Hank? My father has lots of money. Are the stars hot? I whipped Ed Walker twice, Saturday. I don't like girls. You dassent catch toads unless with a string. Do oxen make any noise? Why are oranges round? Have you got beds to sleep on in this cave? Amos Murray has got Six toes. A parrot can talk, but a monkey or a fish can't. How many does it take to make twelve?"
Every few minutes he would remember that he was a pesky redskin, and pick up his stick rifle and tiptoe to the mouth of the cave to rubber for the scouts of the hated paleface. Now and then he would let out a war-whoop that made Old Hank the Trapper shiver... He kept us awake for three hours, jumping up and reaching for his rifle and screeching: "Hist! pard," in mine and Bill's ears, as the fancied crackle of a twig or the rustle of a leaf revealed to his young imagination the stealthy approach of the outlaw band... Red Chief was sitting on Bill's chest, with one hand twined in Bill's hair. In the other he had the sharp case-knife we used for slicing, bacon; and he was industriously and realistically trying to take Bill's scalp, according to the sentence that had been pronounced upon him the evening before.
www.online-literature.com/donne/1041/
Ever read Dennis the Menace? ADHD.
So, let's get past the point that nature is perfect, that all medications are bad, and that any parent who ever medicates their child is a monster, mkay? From a human-interest standpoint.... the one where we like to be healthy and happy and have some control over our future... nature fucks us up. Often. Anyone who claims otherwise just isn't looking.
So let's get to the part about "mind control".
Here's another mind-bending thought: Minds SHOULD be controlled. And normally, they are. There are internal mechanisms that allow us to keep a thought in our head for more than 30 seconds. That allow us to tell reality from fantasy. That direct our attention to the important things, and screen out repetitive stimulus. That keep the brain from firing all together all at once. That put us to sleep at night and wake us up in the morning. That tell our limbs to move smoothly to a target and then stop. That allow us to internally mimic someone else's expressions and motions and feel what they are feeling. Or tells us that it's OK to get out of bed and do something.
But just as there are a couple of thousand individual brain functions, there are just as many DYSfunctions. So, in order of the above list, the dysfunctions are: ADHD, schizophrenia, autism, epilepsy, sleep disorder, dystonia and Parkinson's disease, sociopathy, and depression.
Now, generally, most people fall somewhere in the range of "average". Some people are a little bit distractable, others a little sensitive to stimulus. But SOME people's internal mechanisms are just off-the-charts whacked, to the point where it makes THEM unhappy or dangerous to themselves or others.
So yanno what? "Mind control" is a good thing.
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Getting back to your nephew, Byte.
I don't know him at all, so I can't possiblyNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
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Good post, signy. Thanks for bringing all this up.
I'd have to say Byte, that you should not under any circumstances encourage this boy to not take his medication. Although you do not approve, you also may not have all the facts
I accepted a number of proposed ideas that I could use in case he chooses to stay on the medication, that would help him refocus on school work and repair the damage done to his love for learning.
I am concerned, I do not yet know enough to approve or disapprove. There is a difference.
I am mostly attempting to learn here what people think - I am concerned by this appearance that he may have become dependent on an ADHD medication, Ritalin, and trying to figure out a way to potentially treat the dependency. That way he wouldn't have to be put on a new medication that treats something that is caused by the medication, not something he actually has.
I would NOT suggest he stop his medication cold turkey and go through withdrawals, if he wanted to stop them then such a method would be self defeating.
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the decision is not yours, nor his to make
Of course it's not mine to make. I just want to see how he feels and whether he understands what's going on. I'm fully capable of being neutral in conversation about something that concerns me privately.
But what's this about saying it's not HIS decision to make? Of course it's his decision to make. It's his brain, his body and his emotions at stake here. if he wants to take the medicine, fine. If he doesn't, then, what, he should be forced? There's been no indication of violence when he's aggressive, he's just irritable and yells a lot. We're not talking about a criminal psychopath here.
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I was responding to Dreamtrove's suggestion
'It also needs stealth. Not only must he say no, he needs to not say it loudly. If he stops taking the pills, he doesn't need to tell anyone. He is going to need a few things...'
It's not his decision to make alone, although he could have a voice in it. A small child cannot have the same capacity to understand what is best for him.
If a 5 year old decided that
- he wasn't going to ever eat anything other than icecream ever again
- he was not going to bed every night until 1pm
then his parents would intervene. Clearly those things would not be in a child's best interest. Children do not have the information nor the capacity to make fully informed choices about stuff. Parents 'parent' - that is their role and they do it to the best of their ability. To make informed choices on behalf of a child until they are old enough to make them on their own.
Now I'm not sure how old your relative is, if he is very young still then it is pretty much his parents decision. If he is reaching his teens, then his wishes should be given a fair degree of weight, and I guess it's pretty hard to make a teenager do anything.
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Quote:Yanno, I've known adults who were on ADHD meds and liked it.
This is really scary. No wonder you're on the social engineering side. Not willing to accept the human race as it is, in its unmodified "flawed" form?
What kinds of "flaws" would you accept? Cystic fibrosis? Phenylketonuria? Violent schizophrenia? At what point would you say... WHOA! This needs treatment! I've known a couple fo schizos, BTW... one who would get raped on the street, show up pregnant and deliver... all the time denying she was having a baby... then disappear again. She wound up dying on the street at a young age, BTW, leaving behind four kids for grandma to take care of.
There are no bright lines between "healthy" and "sick". But just because there are no bright lines doesn't mean there aren't ends of the spectrum. Denial doesn't work.
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