Real World Event Discussions

Oppositional Defiant Disorder

POSTED BY: Bytemite
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 04:51
VIEWED: 6599
PAGE 6 of 11

Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:


You and I have very different ideas about parenting then. I prefer family life where everything is not negotiable with infants, and where parents have authority. I aim for authoritative parenting, which incidentally has an excellent success rate for kids with behaviourable issues.



Oh?

"The learning theory suggests that the ODD develops as a response to negative interactions. The techniques used by parents and authority figures on these children bring about the disobedient behavior. The parents are not to blame when this happens. These same techniques work quite well for normal children."

http://addadhdadvances.com/ODD.html

"Oppositional defiant disorder may be related to - the child's temperament and the family's response to that temperament"

http://www.depression-guide.com/oppositional-defiant-disorder.htm

"Family instability, including economic stress, parental mental illness, harshly punitive behaviors, inconsistent parenting practices, multiple moves, and divorce, may also contribute to the development of oppositional and defiant behaviors. The interactions of a child who has a difficult temperament and irritable behavior with parents who are harsh, punitive, and inconsistent usually lead to a coercive, negative cycle of behavior in the family. In this pattern, the child's defiant behavior tends to intensify the parents' harsh reactions."

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/918095-overview

I could go on.

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Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:18 AM

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. That Van Gogh suffered from mental illness which was at times incredibly debilitating and led to his suicide is not disputed. It may or may not have contributed to his artistic ability.

The article you cite, goes on to say the following

Quote:

Recently acquitted from the hospital, Van Gogh suffered a severe setback in December 1889. Although he had been troubled by mental illness throughout his life, the episodes became more pronounced during his last few years. In some of these periods he was either unwilling or unable to paint, a factor which added to the mounting frustrations of an artist at the peak of his ability. His depression gradually deepened. On 27 July 1890, aged 37, he walked into a field and shot himself in the chest with a revolver. He survived the impact and managed to walk back to the Ravoux Inn. He died there two days later. Theo rushed to be at his side. Theo reported his brother's last words as "La tristesse durera toujours" (the sadness will last forever).[126]


Poor old Vincent. Probably would have jumped at the chance to soothe some of his pain, which he attempted to do so with alcohol and absinthe anyway.

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Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:


You and I have very different ideas about parenting then. I prefer family life where everything is not negotiable with infants, and where parents have authority. I aim for authoritative parenting, which incidentally has an excellent success rate for kids with behaviourable issues.



Oh?

"The learning theory suggests that the ODD develops as a response to negative interactions. The techniques used by parents and authority figures on these children bring about the disobedient behavior. The parents are not to blame when this happens. These same techniques work quite well for normal children."

http://addadhdadvances.com/ODD.html

"Oppositional defiant disorder may be related to - the child's temperament and the family's response to that temperament"

http://www.depression-guide.com/oppositional-defiant-disorder.htm

"Family instability, including economic stress, parental mental illness, harshly punitive behaviors, inconsistent parenting practices, multiple moves, and divorce, may also contribute to the development of oppositional and defiant behaviors. The interactions of a child who has a difficult temperament and irritable behavior with parents who are harsh, punitive, and inconsistent usually lead to a coercive, negative cycle of behavior in the family. In this pattern, the child's defiant behavior tends to intensify the parents' harsh reactions."

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/918095-overview

I could go on.



Who says authoritative is harsh? You are mistaking it for authoritarian, quite different styles.

Quote:

What is Authoritative Parenting?

Authoritative parents exercise control over their children, without being controlling. They set rules and guidelines that they expect children to follow. But they also recognize that sometimes flexibility is called for. Authoritative parents often express love and affection to their children, without fear that such expressions of emotion may affect their ability to discipline. As their children get older, authoritative parents encourage more responsibility and freedom, within well-outlined rules. The American Academy of Pediatrics and other children’s health organizations state that children of authoritative parents usually grow up to be independent, socially successful, and respectful of authority.

Using snacks as an example, an authoritative parent might allow sweets in moderation, after explaining to the child that such treats are tasty, but not necessarily healthy.

Authoritarian Parenting

Like authoritative parenting, authoritarian parenting involves control. But unlike authoritative parenting, authoritarian parenting usually involves too much control. Authoritarian parents set rules and standards without flexibility, emphasize obedience and feel it is important to exert power over their children. Authoritarian parents may not show as much love and warmth as authoritative parents, which can lead to their children feeling rejected and unloved. Authoritarian parents are also more likely to label a child as “bad” if they fail to follow the strict rules set down for them. Children of authoritarian parents usually follow one of two paths; they either rebel against authority and escape their homes early (whether they are ready or not), or they remain dependent on their parents throughout adulthood.

Again using the snack analogy, an authoritarian parent would set a rule that sweet snacks are never allowed, no matter what the occasion.

Permissive Parenting

On the face of it, permissive parenting may seem like a much better idea than authoritarian parenting. Permissive parents show lots of love and affection, accept their children for what they are and make few demands of their children. But in doing this, permissive parents fail to teach their children the consequences of their actions, respect for authority and responsibility. By showing little or no control over their children, they risk raising a spoiled c

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Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:28 AM

Quote:

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. That Van Gogh suffered from mental illness which was at times incredibly debilitating and led to his suicide is not disputed. It may or may not have contributed to his artistic ability.


Am I trying to prove something? I was just proposing an alternative take on him. Yes, he had mental illness, yes, he was an artist, and cared enough about his art being "good" in his estimation that he destroyed a number of them. But there's some suggestion that he's been over-romanticized, and did consider money to be a fair motivation.

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Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:32 AM

...What on earth is this link and thing you've quoted? None of it means anything to me.

I also note, again the point in my previous post saying that the parenting style that can generate ODD can work for other children, but only makes things worse for the defiant kid.

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Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. That Van Gogh suffered from mental illness which was at times incredibly debilitating and led to his suicide is not disputed. It may or may not have contributed to his artistic ability.


Am I trying to prove something? I was just proposing an alternative take on him. Yes, he had mental illness, yes, he was an artist, and cared enough about his art being "good" in his estimation that he destroyed a number of them. But there's some suggestion that he's been over-romanticized, and did consider money to be a fair motivation.



Oh god, I'm sure he wanted money and success. That makes it all the more poignant, don't you think? And that possibly his mental health or lack of may not have contributed to his art but may have actually hindered it and most probably hindered any capacity to achieve success as he would have seen it.

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Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
...What on earth is this link and thing you've quoted? None of it means anything to me.

I also note, again the point in my previous post saying that the parenting style that can generate ODD can work for other children, but only makes things worse for the defiant kid.



http://www.essortment.com/all/authoritativepa_tvxe.htm

I took from your previous post that harsh and puntive (along with chaotic and inconsistent) parenting had very poor outcomes for kids with ODD. You posted that in reponse to my say that authoritative parenting worked well with kids with behavioural problems, as well as most other kids. I assumed you thought that I meant 'authoritarian' parenting, and posted the extract to define the differences.

Authoritative = firm limits and boundaries but loving and kind and accepting of emotions.

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Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:52 AM

Quote:


Oh god, I'm sure he wanted money and success. That makes it all the more poignant, don't you think? And that possibly his mental health or lack of may not have contributed to his art but may have actually hindered it and most probably hindered any capacity to achieve success as he would have seen it.



It's true he clearly had anxiety and depression, but there are also a number of other behaviours that researchers have tried to define as one disorder or another. It's possible that some of them may have influenced his unique view of the world as much as impressionists he encountered in France.

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Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:58 AM

From a website on ODD>
http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/disorders/oppositional-defiant-dis
order.shtml


Quote:

Research has found that there are three basic parenting styles:

Cop – Authoritarian Parenting Style. The parent implements behavioral programs and dishes out consequences for behavior. Tries to control situations to insure appropriate behavior. Fosters fear and conformity. Wants the child to always be obedient.

Social Worker – Permissive Parenting Style. The parent protects the child and tries to minimize consequences for behavior. Always tries to understand the child and wants others to understand and accept the child. Fosters dependence. Wants the child to always be happy.

Coach – Authoritative Parenting Style. The parent works alongside the child to encourage and teach him or her to develop an attitude and a set of skills that will lead to success. Helps the child to set reasonable goals and achieve them. Fosters independence. Wants the child to be as successful as possible.

[Research indicates that the Authoritative Parenting Style works best for all children].

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Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:58 AM

I still don't really understand. I wasn't calling you harsh and punitive, I was refuting what I thought was a claim that a lot of rules, structures, and discipline can be effective at reigning in a kid with a behavioural problem. It doesn't appear to be the case with ODD, as the parenting method is a cause for it.

I'm afraid classification of parenting styles into categories means absolutely nothing to me, as does an unsubstantiated claim, with no links to further studies or citations, that one works better than any other. I suspect all families are different, and all children are different, and people will revert to whatever feels natural to them on a case by case basis.

Do you have kids with behavioural issues? If so, I'd be interested to hear your personal experience with that. I don't know what these links are you're giving me.

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