Oppositional Defiant Disorder
POSTED BY: Bytemite
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 04:51
VIEWED: 6599
PAGE 3 of 11
Music. That's a good idea, also maybe some long term projects, like taking care of a class pet. I recall that worked for Frem.
But at this point, I'm almost with DT that it might be better to just get him OUT of there, as fast and as legally as possible.
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Boyhood is a disease. The lad must be medicated. Also, in addition to ADHD, he probably has autism and stuff. Maybe if he had his little nads removed he'd behave better, too.
Just because you are proscribed something does not mean you have to take it. I was given prescription as a lad because I was naughty and aggressive and anxious and miserable. Weeks later, when they took a blood test to determine how much of it was in my system (and adjust the dosage), they discovered that I hadn't been taking it.
Boyhood is pathologized, because boys are awful. Fortunately, most boys grow up and become "dudes" and "bros." So cheer up. He may outgrow it. I was a monster in my youth, and now I am merely a beast.
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Firstoff, Wulfenwhiner, you *DO* realize that your unreasoning malice, sound-byte-ignorance, and general jackassery demeans every goddamn attempt by reasonable folk to do something, therefore by your constant mouthing off without knowing jack shit, and being a total dick about it, you make the folks pushing those pills look like they're right - in effect sabotaging my efforts, something which pisses me off all the worse cause you're too fucking stupid to realize this.
In short - get off my side!
That said...
The sad thing, Byte - is the additional horror of folks who KNOW it's wrong, but simply cringe, turn away and lie to themselves about it, I don't mean you, but I think you understand what I mean.
They look at the situation much like they would a bloody stretcher being wheeled away from a car crash, telling themselves maybe it's not that bad, maybe they'll be all right...
Fact: It AIN'T gonna be alright.
And here's the thing, because of the way the law treats kids as property, as subhuman, any attempt to intervene directly will get YOU in legal trouble, potentially - but you knew that, and indirect intervention like trying to reason with the parents is fairly pointless, cause for every reasoned assessment backing up the case for misdiagnosis and how harmful these things are, there's some asshat like wulfie making it all sound like a bunch of angry kooks, which they're gonna point right to and cast aside your arguments no matter how valid they are.
And don't even get me started on how Doctors are so venerated, incorrectly - outside of some really grevious stuff, I mean real nitty-gritty "dirt", you'll get blown off.
But you have one ally you are overlooking, I think.
Lemme say it right up front, sometimes the only road to take is pretty ugly.
He's not gonna SAY anything in front of them, where they might hear - but he's angry for a reason, he might not even fully comprehend that reason cause his brain is all fogged up with that crap, but he's real pissed off that some of the mental things he valued don't work right any more, and may not have even connected that with the medication cause his processing is currently fucked up, you see ?
So he's pissed off as hell and doesn't know why, or even how to express it.
Why don't you take him aside and *explain* why ?
Yeah yeah, social convention and property rights, and you're supposed to go through the parents, but fucking hell, he's a HUMAN BEING, a PERSON, and you'd think he would have a right to know, although once he does, that is when it's going to turn real ugly, especially if he does trust you enough to listen and accept what you are telling him - cause at that point he's gonna raise the black banner and cry havoc.
And you, M'lady, are gonna take all manner of shit for "going behind his parents back" and telling him the truth of something they wanted him completely ignorant of, and I honestly suspect I am not telling you anything you do not already know, haven't already planned - you were just hoping there was another route to it, maybe some third-option you might have missed... well maybe there is, but if so I sure don't know either.
Which brings us to the problem of "And Then What ?"
Cause if he starts refusing to take the damn pills, aggressively resisting pacification-treatment, that's gonna get nasty, with a side order of how-dare-he-resist-our-will, and it gets tricky cause once that interfamilial war starts, once they get the notion he might be getting "ideas" which THEY didn't put in his head, the very first thing they're gonna do is try to cut off all possible sources thereof - TV, Phone, Friends, etc...
This is also to cover up the notion that they might be ineffective parents, which at it's most extreme results in closet-kid-syndrome, but I don't think that is likely here.
Of course one can expect no support from the school either, but the key here is to both wage and win this "war", while remaining free of coercive incarceration, cause you *KNOW* that's the next straw they're gonna reach for, but it'
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Frem is spot on.
It also needs stealth. Not only must he say no, he needs to not say it loudly. If he stops taking the pills, he doesn't need to tell anyone. He is going to need a few things
1) you gotta know if he *wants* to stop taking the pills. If he's already addicted, it may be a lot harder.
2) you have to get him out, but fortunately despite the president's efforts to get rid of it, there still is summer vacation. That's enough time for a decent detox. But only if he's *prepared* to detox before that. It's pretty essential that he not discuss this plan with anyone, or the plan is shot.
3) Once you have him out of school, for the summer, you can try to detox and even deal with an underlying problem if there is one, be it psychological or chemical.
4) If you can get him off of it, when he has to return to school, he can simply take the pills and not take them. There's ways to avoid the topic altogether with the parents.
ETA: Frem is also right about the child as property. The parents fall into this trap because society teaches them that their kids are their property. We have to not fall into that trap ourselves.
When I was growing up, child, I won't say abuse, but "misuse" was rampant *(I'll explain in a min.) and at first I ignored it on this territorial basis we're taught, and then I watched disastrous consequences. Finally I figured out sometimes you have to interfere, and do so with stealth.
Misuse, I mean the worst-off kids were not always the ones who were beaten. Those who were beaten *knew* they were being wronged. A couple of other disastrous situations, children put through radical treatment plans which their parents thought were healthy, and on the other end, parents and step parents who introduced their children to drugs, even hard drugs, because they thought they were cool. I know that this goes against the libertarian grain, but I did know parents who gave their kids at 10 and 12, cocaine. And the results were about as fucked up as you can imagine. So, it's not just the schools, it's the property concept. And kids often don't know that they should be independent. If they do, their ahead of the curve. My runaways knew, because it takes really a big step to runaway, but a lot of the kids I knew growing up, didn't.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Stop feeding your kids Starbucks and fifteen different kinds of candy and surprise.. ADHD seems to VANISH.
That's pretty ignorant, and incorrect.
ADHD is vastly over-diagnosed, yes. But in those properly diagnosed, there is a quantifiable difference in brain chemistry.
As a matter of fact, when a real ADHD kid drinks coffee, it calms them because their metabolism reacts to the caffeine differently.
It's hilarious to see you say others "don't understand" when you obviously don't know what you're talking about. But you've never been one to let facts interfere with your beliefs.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
Bingo. Used to know a kid who was on Ritalin. For most people, that would be a high-powered speed, something akin to methamphetamine. But for him, it was almost like a sleeping pill. He was very hyper, very manic, had some amazingly odd notions (thought-control waves emanating from the electrical outlets in his house, for instance, and a microwave that could "speed things up" in the outside world when it was turned on).
He was later diagnosed schizophrenic, then went off his meds once too often and hanged himself. His parents were so embarrassed they didn't even have a funeral service. I think they just wanted to forget he ever existed, but when he was "on", he had flashes of amazing brilliance.
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill
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Would you take insulin away from a diabetic? Anti-convulsants away from a someone with seizures? Oxygen away from someone with fibrosis? Antibiotics away from pneumonia? Nature isn't perfect. There are a lot of things that go wrong: birth defects, infection, dementia, schizophrenia, autism. Even ADHD.
It's not like ADHD is a new diagnosis. Have you ever read "The Ransom of Red Chief"? It was written in 1910 and contains a perfect description of a boy with ADHD Quote:
He [the boy, who names himself Red Chief] made a during-dinner speech something like this:
"I like this fine. I never camped out before; but I had a pet 'possum once, and I was nine last birthday. I hate to go to school. Rats ate up sixteen of Jimmy Talbot's aunt's speckled hen's eggs. Are there any real Indians in these woods? I want some more gravy. Does the trees moving make the wind blow? We had five puppies. What makes your nose so red, Hank? My father has lots of money. Are the stars hot? I whipped Ed Walker twice, Saturday. I don't like girls. You dassent catch toads unless with a string. Do oxen make any noise? Why are oranges round? Have you got beds to sleep on in this cave? Amos Murray has got Six toes. A parrot can talk, but a monkey or a fish can't. How many does it take to make twelve?"
Every few minutes he would remember that he was a pesky redskin, and pick up his stick rifle and tiptoe to the mouth of the cave to rubber for the scouts of the hated paleface. Now and then he would let out a war-whoop that made Old Hank the Trapper shiver... He kept us awake for three hours, jumping up and reaching for his rifle and screeching: "Hist! pard," in mine and Bill's ears, as the fancied crackle of a twig or the rustle of a leaf revealed to his young imagination the stealthy approach of the outlaw band... Red Chief was sitting on Bill's chest, with one hand twined in Bill's hair. In the other he had the sharp case-knife we used for slicing, bacon; and he was industriously and realistically trying to take Bill's scalp, according to the sentence that had been pronounced upon him the evening before.
www.online-literature.com/donne/1041/
Ever read Dennis the Menace? ADHD.
So, let's get past the point that nature is perfect, that all medications are bad, and that any parent who ever medicates their child is a monster, mkay? From a human-interest standpoint.... the one where we like to be healthy and happy and have some control over our future... nature fucks us up. Often. Anyone who claims otherwise just isn't looking.
So let's get to the part about "mind control".
Here's another mind-bending thought: Minds SHOULD be controlled. And normally, they are. There are internal mechanisms that allow us to keep a thought in our head for more than 30 seconds. That allow us to tell reality from fantasy. That direct our attention to the important things, and screen out repetitive stimulus. That keep the brain from firing all together all at once. That put us to sleep at night and wake us up in the morning. That tell our limbs to move smoothly to a target and then stop. That allow us to internally mimic someone else's expressions and motions and feel what they are feeling. Or tells us that it's OK to get out of bed and do something.
But just as there are a couple of thousand individual brain functions, there are just as many DYSfunctions. So, in order of the above list, the dysfunctions are: ADHD, schizophrenia, autism, epilepsy, sleep disorder, dystonia and Parkinson's disease, sociopathy, and depression.
Now, generally, most people fall somewhere in the range of "average". Some people are a little bit distractable, others a little sensitive to stimulus. But SOME people's internal mechanisms are just off-the-charts whacked, to the point where it makes THEM unhappy or dangerous to themselves or others.
So yanno what? "Mind control" is a good thing.
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Getting back to your nephew, Byte.
I don't know him at all, so I can't possibly weigh in on whether medication is warra
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Quote:
It's not like ADHD is a new diagnosis. Have you ever read "The Ransom of Red Chief"? It was written in 1910 and contains a perfect description of a boy with ADHD
This sentence defeats itself. I'm sure the book refers to the boy as "ADHD." If it doesn't, than it's not the same diagnosis.
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Okay, let me rephrase that. It's not like ADHD is a new PHENOMENON, or a new OBSERVATION. Because it has been happening, and people have been observing it, for a long time. And making it the POINT of a story or cartoon.
Better?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Okay, let me rephrase that. It's not like ADHD is a new PHENOMENON, or a new OBSERVATION. Because it has been happening, and people have been observing it, for a long time. And making it the POINT of a story or cartoon.
Better?
Yup, it's not a new thing, just a new(ish) *diagnosis*. And there are prescription drugs for it now.
I'm with Story - ADHD is a real thing, and there are real helps for it, but it is WAY overdiagnosed and overprescribed. I think if I had a child that was diagnosed with ADHD, my reaction wouldn't be "I want a second opinion" - it would be "I want a dozen opinions".
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill
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phenomenon, yes, I would be tempted to say "this is normal kid behavior" by saying it's a new observation, you're leaning toward saying "this was always recognized as a disease," which perhaps you want to say, I would disagree with it, but up to you what you wanted to say, just trying to figure out what that was.
Quote:
SignyM:
So let's get to the part about "mind control".
Here's another mind-bending thought: Minds SHOULD be controlled. And normally, they are. There are internal mechanisms that allow us to keep a thought in our head for more than 30 seconds. That allow us to tell reality from fantasy. That direct our attention to the important things, and screen out repetitive stimulus. That keep the brain from firing all together all at once. That put us to sleep at night and wake us up in the morning. That tell our limbs to move smoothly to a target and then stop. That allow us to internally mimic someone else's expressions and motions and feel what they are feeling. Or tells us that it's OK to get out of bed and do something.
But just as there are a couple of thousand individual brain functions, there are just as many DYSfunctions. So, in order of the above list, the dysfunctions are: ADHD, schizophrenia, autism, epilepsy, sleep disorder, dystonia and Parkinson's disease, sociopathy, and depression.
Now, generally, most people fall somewhere in the range of "average". Some people are a little bit distractable, others a little sensitive to stimulus. But SOME people's internal mechanisms are just off-the-charts whacked, to the point where it makes THEM unhappy or dangerous to themselves or others.
So yanno what? "Mind control" is a good thing.
This is really scary. No wonder you're on the social engineering side. Not willing to accept the human race as it is, in its unmodified "flawed" form?
I'm with Frem. Not enough to say "Rousseau was right" because Rousseau really goes so far as to absolve the parent, including himself in his own personal life, of *all* responsibility. (I was actually on a debate team arguing *for* the "Rousseau was right" team. Since then, I've rethought it, rejected it, found it again, and reduced it to "Rousseau had a point" but was not entirely right.) Still, I'll take this over "correcting humanity."
ETA
Mike,
If I got that diagnosis, I'd reject it out of hand. If he loses patience with what I give him, find out what he *is* interested in, by watching him.
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