So, what does everyone think?
POSTED BY: InvaderChat
UPDATED: Sunday, August 28, 2011 08:53
VIEWED: 21421
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Hey there, I didn't see an actual discussion thread about the series yet so I thought I'd start one up ^_^
There may be some spoilers below people!
So, what did people think of the premiere? I hold the seemingly popular opinion that the pacing of the pilot was WAY too fast and that a lot of the things that happened in the pilot may have been better off separated by a few episodes. It didn't really give me too much time to care much about Vince before all the bad shite happened to him. I found the pacing of 'Tarot' considerably better and I hope that the writers were simply being somewhat savvy by starting the series off quickly to get viewers in and then will slow down as it goes on.
I mentioned that I didn't get a chance to care too much about Vince before the whole transformation occurred but already after the second episode (I watched them separated by one day so I had some breathing space I guess) I am starting to care more about him, it's as if they're trying to get us attached to the character AFTER he's had these horrible things happened to him and kind of care more in retrospect as we learn more about him and his family life which I find quite interesting.
Other things seemed buried by the fast pacing such as people assuming Orwell to be male. Why even bother when you've been flaunting the fact that Summer Glau plays Orwell for months? And Vince learning to be a cape wielding master in such a short space of time with a montage seemed a bit hasty as well. I liked the fact that he's still getting his ass handed to him such as when he goes for scales and hurriedly rushes in against Chess. These things fit more into what I would have preferred which is that he slowly gains new abilities and techniques as the series progresses (not like learning to catch knives in one day!) but the fact that he doesn't just kick everyone's ass is good.
Another complaint I've heard is that the series is too 'camp'. Well what the hell did you expect from a cape wearing hero? Sorry folks but I think that the campiness is excellent and I actually laughed out loud at some of this so called 'poorly written humor'. It just feels like one of those series which isn't going to be TOO serious but will have its dark areas, it certainly has room to grow.
I liked the chapter device that they used, naming individual 'sections' of the show. I am not a comic book fan but I thought it was a nice touch.
Overall I really liked the first two episodes and am eagerly awaiting the third, I'm definitely going to stick with this for a while, especially if they slow down and take a breath. I just wonder what they're going to have left to show if they keep hitting us with revelations like the pilot did, it really doesn't need to become a 'villain of the week' story which I feel it is in danger of becoming, I'll be watching and waiting to see.
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You know it's funny, but I agree with most of your observations. I really wanted to like this show (mainly because of Summer being in it), but I too thought the pacing to be a bit fast in the pilot. It could have been stretched out over a couple of episodes. They should have developed his training over a couple of episodes, not in a montage.
Orwell: Again your point is well taken. Why hide her (in the episode) when all along the show promoted Summer's role. Strange.
I too liked the more appropriate pacing in the 2nd episode. I would not like to have a "villian of the week" show, but rather a character development as to The Cape, Orwell (she's Chess's daugther - it's so obvious) and Max Malini.
The campiness is fun. The store owner telling the Cape to work on getting a new superhero name was funny. It is acknowledging the audience who may be thinking the same thing. Poke fun in this type of show I always say, it just adds a little wink.
One thing though: I'm not feeling the character of Vince Faraday. I'm not sure if it's how he is written or because of the actor. Summer and Keith David are solid, and I like Vinnie Jones and the short dude (from Pirates of the Caribbean).
One choice that the producers made that I agree with. They don't have The Cape stopping by to "talk" to his son every episode. That's a good call on their part.
Having said that; the jury's still out for me. I'm going to give it a chance though (for Summer).
SGG
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You agree with me? Now that IS funny :P
But yes, I would have much preferred Vince's framing to occur at the end of episode one, then spend maybe even two episodes learning from the carnival folk and THEN move onto taking on villains. We've missed out on him being all anxious to confront Chess and being told to be patient and all that stuff! As it is he's basically gone from cop to framed villain to caped crusader with the carnies to having his own lair all over the course of two episodes. Him leaving the carnival could've (and in my opinion should have) been some sort of emotional argument far later down the track when we'd seen the friendship between them grow.
Oh yes! I had already felt that Orwell being Chess' daughter was a very obvious answer to her mysteriousness and her random source of monies, forgot to mention that. I basically just hoped to myself that the writers wouldn't do something so obvious and cliche, I'm going to hold out hope they do something different but I'm not betting on it.
Absolutely loved the store part and the quick little 'Where's your Cape' 'At the drycleaners' line in the alleyway, silly but funny and showing again that the show isn't going for dark and edgy, at least not all of the time.
I was worried that they were going to make Vince visit his son as sort of bookends for each episode or something stupid, very much agree that was a good call.
Yeah, I'm still on the bench as far as Vince. Like I said he's grown on me since the first episode and I think that I began to 'get him' a bit more in the space between watching Tarot and now. It's like, he's clearly a 'good guy' but he's a cop and a soldier too, I think a lot of people would have taken the tickets Malini offered and left.
I'm loving the cast in general as well, I thought 'Ruvi' (I think that's his name) the hypnotist guy was cool as well, dunno who the actor is but the hypnotic duels were fun.
I read in at least one review that the second episode was too full of angst and stuff for their liking. Where was there too much angst? I thought if anything there could have been MORE angst. Vince isn't blubbering about his family, his kicking ass to get them back and his family aren't even sitting at home crying, his kid is being steadfastly brave due to the words of 'The Cape' and his wife is out there getting (demanding) a job.
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I rarely make a decision on a show after just two episodes, so I'll reserve judgment for a few more weeks. Of course, if a show is clearly atrocious it doesn't even take one full ep for me to give up on it, but The Cape is not that. It is unfortunate that the weakest element is the lead character, but as has been mentioned, that is the fault of several things, writing, pacing and an actor that is not allowed enough time to live and breath as his character.
While it may seem logical to assume Orwell is Fleming's daughter, don't you think she took a big chance by sitting at the next table over from him at the restaurant? Wouldn't he be able to recognize her even with the dark wig? More likely the daughter of his former partner whom he killed.
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Yes of course, I'm basically just talking about first impressions and whether people think they'll stay with it for now.
That's a good point about Lyons not having a chance to settle into the character yet. Probably furthered by the pacing. I'm hoping that the pacing will slow down and as it does the writing will improve. I just hope it has a chance to get there.
I thought that as well, it was one of the things that gave me hope that Orwell wouldn't be Fleming's daughter. On the other hand though, although Orwell needs to keep her identity secret, does any random person actually know her appearance? It was my impression that she was just like a faceless blogger especially considering that colleague of Vince thought she was male so maybe she was in disguise specifically to fool him? Not like your own father wouldn't recognize you in a wig but it's better than nothing if you don't walk right up and talk to him or possibly they were separated when Orwell was significantly younger.
She did seem worried about the carnival peeps seeing her when she dropped Vince off when he was wounded but that was probably because she had no real explanation for being there and her face might have been connected with the name/identity of Orwell whereas if she just strolled into the restaurant with no disguise but using an alias then she'd just be another person (unless Chess IS her father).
I guess what I'm saying is that, while I agree that Orwell getting that close to Chess if he is her father even in disguise is a horrendous risk, the point could still go either way.
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More likely the daughter of his former partner whom he killed.
Oooooo, I like that EC. It just seems more villiany, you know evil ex-partner kills to gain control of the entire empire. Or maybe he takes over her father's identity and is posing as him in his place. Nah, that doesn't work because she would know it's not him. But yeah, I like it.
It's cliche but it works for me.
As far as the carnival people. That is truly a headscratcher. Maybe it's not as cliche as I make it out to be. Perhaps with better pacing, writing, directing and acting this could be a guilty pleasure hit.
SGG
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
More likely the daughter of his former partner whom he killed.
Oooooo, I like that EC. It just seems more villiany, you know evil ex-partner kills to gain control of the entire empire. Or maybe he takes over her father's identity and is posing as him in his place. Nah, that doesn't work because she would know it's not him. But yeah, I like it.
It's cliche but it works for me.
SGG
Personally, I'm starting to wonder if Wheeler & Co. don't have a tricksy plan to do a double-blind on us.
I mean...things seem semi-obvious that there's gonna be some connection between Orwell and Peter Fleming/Chess (whether it's the classic cliche of devil father/angel daughter or something a bit more removed like the idea of Orwell being the daughter of a former partner or something of Fleming's).
However, I gotta wonder if some of the dialogue from Tarot doesn't hint at something a bit more interesting...Vince maybe not being the actual Vincent Faraday, perhaps? Think about it...two separate flashbacks seem to have Vince rather obsessively focusing on "his" family's history as protectors and guardians of Palm City, with a third hinting at Vince having to do undercover work and being a different person that Dana wouldn't have liked much. "Vince" taking over the life of someone else?
Still, I'm all for the series, as long as things settle down a little in pacing to let Summer and David Lyons breathe a little as their respective characters.
"The revenge of the beaten comes in refusing to fall." -- Mal, in "The Losing Side - Chapter 45" by jetflair
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*Spoilers for episode three!*
Hmm, yes the daughter of some sort of partner seems interesting. Infact everyone's ideas seem interesting but after watching episode three it's pointing more and more towards Orwell being Chess' daughter. However it's also introduced the (in my opinion) interesting dynamic of Chess/Fleming actually searching for his daughter and simultaneously hunting Orwell and ordering 'his' death. That'll be interesting to see come to a head and it also addresses my earlier comment about bothering to set up Orwell as a more secretive figure (with people thinking she's male et cetera) it's interesting because we know who she is but the mystery is still there for the characters, as if we're on the opposite side of it.
In my opinion I think that this episode has definitely picked up over the other two. Pacing was MUCH better and left me feeling a lot more hopeful for the series. I guess at it's heart it was essentially a 'villain of the week' type of plot but with enough other stuff going on to keep it interesting. I mean, comics themselves are a bit like that aren't they?
This episode also brought up the previously mentioned 'Cape visiting Trip' scene which I didn't much like. In my opinion it took away from the emotion involved with The Cape seeing his wife talking to her boss scene in which he saw himself almost starting to be replaced in a way but couldn't do anything about it, but then he goes and gets to hang with Trip anyway so it kinda detracts. Obviously it's still there because he can't reveal himself as Vince but still.
I was interested to learn a bit about the history of the cape itself and I thought Gregor was pretty cool as a villain. I also felt that their final battle was pretty darn cool though it did seem to end a bit abruptly.
I'm wondering if Vince's attitude issues (nearly killing that guy, the whole argument with Orwell) are kinda like a one episode thing which have been resolved by the 'I'm not like him' thing or if we're going to see a darker side.
So what do you guys think?
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I didn't really like either of the first two episodes. There isn't a single interesting character in the show yet. The one who's doing the best is the "widow" wife and she's basically in the background for the most part.
The Cape himself is just an idiot tough guy who doesn't seem to do too much thinking. Not very interesting.
Chess is just evil for the sake of being evil so far. That's the same reason I gave up on V. Morena's character was just plain evil. Interesting villains aren't evil like that. They're doing evil things because they think it's the right thing to do in their own twisted way.
Orwell really hasn't been explored yet. So, nothing to say there.
I was hoping this cape guy would be a real super hero though. Instead he's just a guy in a mask and cape with uh carny powers. That's not helping. I really can't imagine this show will survive for too long.
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