autism the reality of it
POSTED BY: boris
UPDATED: Friday, October 15, 2010 01:42
VIEWED: 8324
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hey featherbunnyman nice observation! yeah we are typically somewhat overwhelmed by outside distractions.The more overwhelming it is the more "locked in" we are. It's difficult to filter all the stimuli we take in and we often need extra explanantions to understand things that don't come across as scientifically sound or safe/ familiar in our brains (e.g. many societal rules and expectations, any new scenario, new experiences, sounds textures) it's all delegated to what I call the "fear sphere" until it's understood and stops being overwhelming. I'm 41 have had excellent support and have been working at it a while so I'm able to work through most things productively. This has helped in my work with ASD kids as I can break things down for them in chunks that are easier to cope with...and it's not an exclusive skill as I've sucessfully taught it to people who don't experience ASD and work in disabilities etc. Works well with kids who have a wide range of isms.On days when it's not completely taking over my brain I do appreciate that I see details others might ignore...makes life a little less mundane.
Rose S
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Simon might be Christian, I'd have to rewatch but this question came up with me before. When I looked at screen captures, it looks almost like Simon bows his head when Shepherd Book asked if they can have a prayer in the pilot.
Simon did bow his head (out of respect/politeness) and also showed support for Book praying over the bodies in Bushwhacked, and also protested the desecration of the Buddhist shrine in the comics - he's clearly RESPECTFUL of faith, and rituals/symbols. But I still don't see Simon as Christian. I see him as agnostic with respect for faith and ritual, and probably a background, as I said, in Confucianism as a philosophy, with some possible religious exposure to Buddhism and/or Shinto (his parents didn't strike me as being religious either, what little we saw of them...."show" religious maybe, like C&E Catholics.) If he had any religious instruction, him and River, it was probably through mentors/teachers or via a nanny/governess.
Boris - I'm so glad I got that right! It was a while ago, but I was watching some youtube vids made by "lower-functioning" autistics, one in particular where she was explaining why she made all the weird jerks and movements, her behavior, and frankly why she was so annoyed at people treating her so alien, like she couldn't understand what was being said around her when in reality she understood plenty just fine. She was "speaking" through what she typed b/c apparently typing was an easier way to communicate but she was very articulate and I personally was able to connect with what she said and found it fascinating - such a different way to experience life and the world around, but shades of similarity - there were things she was talking about and even random behaviors that resonated with me, which makes me think we all have these tenancies, but it's just a matter of degree, and as you said, some of us (not me) just have a much, MUCH more heightened awareness, if not additional senses all together. She was talking about sounds/textures, but even other things that maybe can't be explained in common vernacular...like "textures" or patterns/currents in even the air - not the words she used but that's how it translated to me b/c I've had "sensations" like that before...like there were so many more layers there, in everything.
I really need to find those vids again but they provided a lot of clarity and understanding. If I can track them down I'll post them. But I agree over all that autistic people need not be "cured" necessarily - why would you WANT to do that? I think it's better just to find a way to help them communicate and get by in the world, give them those tools, rather than change them all together. I feel like that would be a huge loss, to make them cease to exist, even out of good intentions. Sometimes we don't understand what we seek to destroy.
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Quote:All good points about Simon, except that one about Simon being a follower of Confucianism or being a scientific agnostic.
Originally posted by fearthebunnyman:
@Two - Simon comes across as either agnostic (a believer in the scientific method) or as a follower of Confucianism. Doubt there's any Christian teaching in his background.
Mal - now there's a guy that's been steeped in Christianity, and he shows it a lot, even though he claims to hate God.
With only his suspicion that River needs help, Simon breaks away from his parents, his friends, his hospital, his bank account. But cutting every goddamn social, financial, and family tie without Simon knowing what is up with River is the extreme opposite of Confucianism, where relationships are everything.
If Simon was a scientific agnostic, he would have a very public and loud confrontation with the Academy that is holding River. Simon could try the following before his Mission Impossible rescue of River: Call the parents of other students at the Academy. Sue the Academy where River is being held incommunicado. Contact Amnesty International & ACLU. Put an advertisement in the newspaper to shame the Academy. Get his friends to hold a protest rally. “Free River Tam! Free River Tam!” Call the TV networks. Make a big stink. If doing any of the above gets Simon jailed, then the Alliance is the Evil Empire or Nazi Germany, contrary to what Joss Whedon says.
Confucius say Joss Whedon made Simon irrational Christian so Firefly episodes easier to write. (If Simon's only enduring connection is River, then the rest of his life need not be in the script. Joss made Simon almost a zero.) When the holy spirit strikes, male Christians are famous for quitting jobs, getting divorced, abandoning parents & children, and escaping to another state to start all over again in secret in a new church. That is our Simon. And a guilty Christian/Jewish conscience is always good for a TV story. Simon would not be as entertaining if he's a neurosis free Buddhist.
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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Religion is about finding comfort and an anchor of belief and faith in a world that's uncertain and frightening. People with neuroses are drawn to religion, to strict rules and observation of traditions and structuring their lives around it, in a desperate attempt to create something calming and familiar, quite a bit more than religion creates neuroses.
Even Buddhists, though if you want to see a really good example of what I'm talking about, look at a born again Christian.
A number of people brought up religious don't become neurotic, although I'm willing to concede there's neurotic elements in religion. That, I think, was introduced and built on by people in religion who DID have neuroses, and being by all appearances the most fervent followers of the religion, other laid back believers kinda went with it in an "oh, that's cool" way.
I wonder if it's common to have a sort of state-sponsored secular Buddhist-Christian hybrid religion in the core worlds. While not core-world, I'm thinking about Nandi's funeral, it's very east-west fusion. That's a possibility for Simon; Nandi was originally from the core as well, but doesn't strike me as particularly religious either. Her girls, on the other hand... *shrug*
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@Two - I honestly can't tell if you are being serious or not, since nothing you just wrote made the slightest bit of sense. Are you high?
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Quote:
Originally posted by boris:
hey featherbunnyman nice observation! yeah we are typically somewhat overwhelmed by outside distractions.The more overwhelming it is the more "locked in" we are. It's difficult to filter all the stimuli we take in and we often need extra explanantions to understand things that don't come across as scientifically sound or safe/ familiar in our brains (e.g. many societal rules and expectations, any new scenario, new experiences, sounds textures) it's all delegated to what I call the "fear sphere" until it's understood and stops being overwhelming. I'm 41 have had excellent support and have been working at it a while so I'm able to work through most things productively. This has helped in my work with ASD kids as I can break things down for them in chunks that are easier to cope with...and it's not an exclusive skill as I've sucessfully taught it to people who don't experience ASD and work in disabilities etc. Works well with kids who have a wide range of isms.On days when it's not completely taking over my brain I do appreciate that I see details others might ignore...makes life a little less mundane.
Rose S
This is my experience with my daughter too. Break things down to manageable chunks and she's fine. And the overwhelming stimuli is true too. She hates wool, polyester clothes and prefers loose cotton or cotton blends.
She also can hear things that I can't. Many times she's been in a store and jumped. I'll ask her what's wrong and then I'll realize the store a/c has cycled on and I didn't even notice it.
And she can't stand crowds. They overwhelm her. I imagine it's like 50 million bees buzzing in her head. She's learned to control the resulting freak out and we have a signal that means "I gotta get out of here fast before I explode."
As for social clues etc. I have to keep my sarcasm to a minimum or clearly tell her that it is sarcasm because she takes everything so literally. As a child it led to a lot of bullying because the other kids knew they could get a reaction(mostly negative)from her. At age 21, she's much better but it's come with maturity and the help of a fantastic counselor.
http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/
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Quote:So I'm senseless and high because you can't believe that Joss Whedon might have designed Simon as a Christian? (They are easy to write and easy for Americans to understand Christian motivations on TV) Per fearthebunnyman, the acceptable beliefs for Simon are Scientific Agnosticism and Confucianism. Those are some pretty exotic and cerebral religions for a North American audience. Why not suggest that Simon is a Zoroastrian? It's as unbelievable and explains just as little about why Simon is the way he is.
Originally posted by fearthebunnyman:
@Two - I honestly can't tell if you are being serious or not, since nothing you just wrote made the slightest bit of sense. Are you high?
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:
Originally posted by two:Quote:So I'm senseless and high because you can't believe that Joss Whedon might have designed Simon as a Christian? (They are easy to write and easy for Americans to understand Christian motivations on TV) Per fearthebunnyman, the acceptable beliefs for Simon are Scientific Agnosticism and Confucianism. Those are some pretty exotic and cerebral religions for a North American audience. Why not suggest that Simon is a Zoroastrian? It's as unbelievable and explains just as little about why Simon is the way he is.
Originally posted by fearthebunnyman:
@Two - I honestly can't tell if you are being serious or not, since nothing you just wrote made the slightest bit of sense. Are you high?
No, Two, it was in regard to your remarks and generalizations about christians and agnostic scientists - which btw, the latter is not a religion, I was discussing what I would guess to be Simon's general way of looking at the world and sorting out problems - you just described in in your earlier post what an "agnostic scientist would do" - as if that's a particular religious belief and "adherents" would all do things a certain way. That makes absolutely no sense. "Scientific Agnosticism" is not a religion. So I don't know why you are acting like it is. I don't care if Joss made Simon a Christian, I am stating my theories of why I don't see it as the likely case. There's no "what's acceptable" at play here - it's called a sharing of opinions. So you've mis-characterized that too. Likewise, there's nothing particularly "exotic" about confucionism, or people that are athiests/agnostics, either, and it would make sense in the context of the show since we've already seen that the Core tends to be more "eastern" and the rim more "western". So I would tend to think people from the core have more exposure to what would traditionally be considered "eastern philosophies" and therefore people from the core would tend to come from those religions backgrounds - Confucianism, Buddhism, etc are actually the philosophical systems that even today have some of the most adherents in the world, largely from the East. Inara, for example, is Buddhist, and from the Core. Mal (and I think Jayne) come from Christian backgrounds (the Rim/Border planets).
You also implied that eastern religions are "too cerebral" for an audience that's only been exposed to Christianity, which makes me wonder what sort of christianity you've been exposed to, that you wouldn't characterize any of it as "cerebral". That hasn't been my experience.
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Very interesting thread. One of my best friends nieces might be autistic (they don't know yet) and I taught a moderately autistic child during student teaching. The child had no iep and I had no clue what to do for him, his mother opted to not have him in special education (which in this area I believe was the right thing to do, despite the extra difficulty it may have given some of us teachers).
I eventually discovered, sort of intuitively with a little trial and error, that if I could write the entire lesson's notes on the board ahead of time in as logical a progression as possible, the moderately autistic child would come in, copy them down, and basically have taught himself via my notes before class began, where he would go back to bouncing his chin on his hands. I also found he worked better when I gave gim extra space from the other students. If we had any support from the specialists, I would be worried they would get on to me concerning least restrictive environment type stuff, but he seemed more comfortable with the extra space. By the end of our 22 day rotation (not long enough for a general music class, but don't even get me started on THAT can of worms) he even raised his hand once or twice and contributed his own rhythms when we wrote some on the board. I like to think I helped, but I was honestly just playing by ear, it could have been any number of other factors that changed things for him.
As for Simon, I don't see autism, more shyness and culture shock. I think it's possible he's Christian, he certainly has respect for religion, but bear in mind, Christianity is very diverse and likely would have evolved over the centuries. Even today, it's important we take the historical context into consideration when interpreting the bible. Also the interpret part is really important. Why do you think Jesus taught with so many parables and analogies? Perhaps I am in the Christian minority, but I believe the bible was meant to be interpreted, explored, thought about and not blindly followed word for word without accounting for the change in culture, time and location. If you just take something as is out of context it even be very wrong.
Case and point, the sex thing. Back in the day (for whatever reason) those kind of rules only applied to women and also folks were typically married about as soon as they were physically capable of 'doing the deed.' Therefore, if they were having sex outside of marriage, they were probably committing adultery. Now we live longer, actually think about who we want to marry and be with, and I'm not entirely sure how important the no sex policy is anymore. Now we can have sex without making babies and we live long enough to wait a while and still get married and make lots of babies. If someone believes this makes me impious, they have every right to think so, but that doesn't make me any less confident in my faith.
I must admit, it does offend me that some people seem to believe you cannot be Christian and intellectual, or that faith is merely a security blanket for folks with some insecurity, but I don't let it bother me. Just because people say things you don't like or agree with, doesn't mean they are trying to be disrespectful. And if the world walked on eggshells in everyday speech, well, that would just suck.
Oh dear, I went and started a novel again... It happens when I talk about faith or music lol. Anyway, just cause he's stiff and awkward, doesn't mean he has to be Christian and just because he's a genius doesn't mean he can't be Christian. I do think if he were Christian, it would be a fairly private and personal thing (especially considering the captain). I suspect the only ones who would know would be River and possibly Kaylee or Inara if Simon and Inara had known each other in the past.
Edit: Goodness, that was really long... um just one more quick thought. If Simon was Christian, he could be struggling with faith and feeling like God abandoned him during the series (hmmm... kind of like our favorite captain).
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Quote:
"Scientific Agnosticism" is not a religion.
Hmm. I'm a scientific atheist, yet I'm not prepared to deny the possibility that it's a form of religion.
In any case, it's not more or less relevant than any other religion. All belief conflicts tend to be of the misunderstanding or temperamental persuasion.
I don't intend to be offensive when I say religion is a comfort thing. I think it is, but then I don't understand religion very well. I don't have all that much faith in my own, nor take much comfort from it. Others do.
The lack of positivity I feel from my belief system lends to a bias I have that tends to offend other people when I speak about religion. They all seem kind of silly to me. And divisive. Note that I am aware that my thinking something is silly does not mean it actually IS silly.
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