autism the reality of it

POSTED BY: boris
UPDATED: Friday, October 15, 2010 01:42
VIEWED: 8324
PAGE 1 of 4

1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE

BORIS

Saturday, October 9, 2010 3:59 AM

just read an interview with Ari Ne emen a presidential appointee to the national council of disabilities...I like what he said it resonates with my own thoughts and feelings re Autism. If you are interested.
here's the link
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/10/exclusive-ari-neeman-qa/all/
1
Cures are good if they happen but acceptance,inclusion and understanding of those of us who are diversely wired is just as valuable. Neurodiversity... I like it. Where do I join up?

Rose S

NCBROWNCOAT

Saturday, October 9, 2010 3:15 PM

I just finished reading the article and as a mother of an "Aspie"(and possibly somewhere on the spectrum myself) I really liked Mr. Ne'eman's ideas. I forwarded a link to my daughter and I'll be interested to see her reaction to it.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

TWO

Saturday, October 9, 2010 4:54 PM

The Wired article mentioned a mother who had murdered her autistic child because she couldn’t deal with the fact that he wasn’t normal. That gave me the thought that River's parents did not rescue River from the Academy because they did not want her back. I imagine they treat her like she is autistic. Or as the Wired article said, “How do we make autistic people behave more normally? How do we get them to increase eye contact and make small talk while suppressing hand-flapping and other stims?”

The usual explanations on fireflyfans.net are that River's parents abandon her because they were intimidated by the Alliance or colluding with it. Instead, if you imagine that her parents were pious Christians while River was a loudmouth autistic anti-Christian (remember her editing Book's bible?) that would explain why her parents don't want her around. If the Alliance falsely promised that River will return home as a good little believer, her parents are happy to let her be indoctrinated in the reeducation camp.

Simon, with his poor social skills, comes across as a high functioning autistic, like I imagine River was before the Alliance got her. And Kaylee can't drag Simon into bed suggests he's a pious Christian. Maybe that's why the parents weren't telling Simon the real reason River was gone. He'd resent it.

Sorry for making this about Firefly. It's what I do.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

CYBERSNARK

Saturday, October 9, 2010 9:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Kaylee can't drag Simon into bed suggests he's a pious Christian.

In defense of pious Christians, it suggests more that Simon is a boob.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

TWO

Saturday, October 9, 2010 10:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Kaylee can't drag Simon into bed suggests he's a pious Christian.
In defense of pious Christians, it suggests more that Simon is a boob.

The formula I was using was that impious Christians fornicate often and feel shallow guilt, whereas pious Christians don't fornicate often and feel deep shame when they fail. I know there's sin, confession, penitence, but some Christians aren't really serious about their Christianity. With Simon, everything is serious as death. He is an overachiever Boy Scout with 50 merit badges for stuff like helping old ladies cross the street.

And Simon is also a boob that doesn't pickup on social signals that are subtle. I guess (can't prove, much like my notion Simon is a serious Christian) Joss put him somewhere on the autistic spectrum.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

BORIS

Sunday, October 10, 2010 11:27 AM

Hey Two one of the reasons Firefly appeals to me Is that I get where River and Simon are coming from. so feel free to make it about Firefly. :-)

Rose S

BORIS

Sunday, October 10, 2010 11:30 AM

As a diagnosed ASD'er I really like what Ne emen had to say. anyone who advocates for acceptance of diversity gets my support.
Some issues of mine: I hate hate hate being referred to as high functioning. It's patronising and essentially excludes us. It suggests we're okay for being able to function as what is regarded as normal which makes us almost as good as so called normal people (who is normal anyway and why would you want to be?)I have some things to offer from my unique perspective. I was genuinely apalled at some of the comments and protests by some of the organisations that say they support people with Autism...I don't know what's happening in the US re Autism research but here in Australia there's a general inclination towards encouraging inclusion and lobbying to ensure families have funding for access to ABA, AAC, and respite care etc. The search for a cure to Autism really disturbs me. I balk at the idea of being "cured" of being....MYSELF.I'm not compltetely locked inside myself like people who are higher up on the spectrum so I'm coming at it from there I can't speak for them. Certainly helping unlock severely Autistic people from their inner confinement is a good thing but trying to ensure Autism doesn't happen anymore is both unrealistic and unacceptable. We've just evolved a bit differently and our senses are primed differently and we connect to people differently, but with the right support our powers can be used for good. I know plenty of people who have benefitted from Temple Grandin's and other Autistic people's perspectives, And I'm told regularly that I inspire people to think outside the box...that's gotta be a good thing right? :-).
Rose S

NCBROWNCOAT

Monday, October 11, 2010 12:33 AM

I happen to agree with your perspective. I've had several long talks with my daughter and she feels just about the same way.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

FEARTHEBUNNYMAN

Monday, October 11, 2010 1:09 AM

@Two - Simon comes across as either agnostic (a believer in the scientific method) or as a follower of Confucianism. Doubt there's any Christian teaching in his background.
Mal - now there's a guy that's been steeped in Christianity, and he shows it a lot, even though he claims to hate God.
As for Simon's hesitance, that I think comes from his upper-class background (raised as an old school aristocratic gentleman) his precarious social position on the ship (imagine the fallout if he hooked up with Kaylee, and not to mention River was his primary concern, and Simon was very self-sacrificing and devoted when it came to her) his AWARENESS of his precarious position and how River's well-being hinged on it, and the fact that he comes from a completely different cultural background than the rest of the crew. Imagine someone from an old school aristocratic Chinese family being dumped in a public school in Detroit, and there you go. Considering all of that, Simon was pretty aware - he was picking up on the cues lobbed at him just fine, he just didn't know how to respond to what to him was unusual behavior, other than how he was taught. Also though you didn't see it all the time in the show, it was probably that Simon spent the overwhelming bulk of his waking hours tending to River - ever had to care for a mentally ill/disabled person? They require more attention than an infant sometimes. And can be much more dangerous to themselves and others , even without being psychic assassins. It's a huge stretch to call Simon autistic, or even on the spectrum, given all that and how he handled himself on the show.
He's a genius himself though, and that can also account for some of the awkwardness - people with IQ's 20pts (I think) or above those around them have a hard time integrating, and also tend to think more logically and analytically than others which also adds to that. Jubal picked up on that immediately with Simon, which is why he took the reasoning approach with him in the first place.

Boris can probably say more on this, but there is in all that still some commonality, or so I've heard, with Autistic/Asbergers kids - they often have high IQ's, but I'm referring more to I've read they get constant input from the environment around them, much more than your average person, which can be distracting to them and cause them to be stuck inside their own brain more so than other people. Boris, if ure still reading the thread, am I off on that?
But if that's the case then River would be the more likely common thread with autism, since she's getting overwhelmed with input all the time.
But Two, I totally got the same impression about River's parents and them being uneasy around her. Since Simon's a genius, and River makes him look like an "idiot child", River must be so far and above, IQ-wise I'm betting she had a hard time communicating at the same pace and level with anyone - Simon was probably the closest match to her. So her parents must have had a hard time connecting with her. You kind of see a hint of that in the flashback in "Safe", the way her father is so dismissive of her - kindly, but he gave off the impression of having already given up on her acting like a normal child at that point, was the impression I got. It must have been a huge relief to them to finally have found a "good place" for her, out of their hair but still respectable, and more of a shock when their otherwise sane, successful, and obedient son started freaking out over it.

BYTEMITE

Monday, October 11, 2010 4:57 AM

Simon might be Christian, I'd have to rewatch but this question came up with me before. When I looked at screen captures, it looks almost like Simon bows his head when Shepherd Book asked if they can have a prayer in the pilot.

Possibly he was just fitting in with Kaylee, who was friendly with him and who he might be able to tell even the captain has a soft spot for.

If Simon does believe, I agree that he doesn't seem very religious. It's kind of like many forms of Christianity have become somewhat secular. His belief in science and medicine (and love for his sister) likely takes precedence over practicing any kind of religion.

As for autism, hmm. I don't see that he has trouble understanding certain social cues, but rather a combination of trained over-politeness and fish-out-of-water. And he has no difficulty in correctly identifying his own emotions and others.

River is more likely to be autistic than Simon. Even seems suggested to be prior to PTSD and brain tampering.

I'd also say Mal and Jayne are also more likely candidates that Simon, except Mal has PTSD and both are the product of a cultural upbringing that leaves their emotional expression and recognition abilities stunted.

1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE