Another 'Religion of Peace' moment, brought to you by.....yep, ISLAM!
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 12, 2025 15:05
VIEWED: 23038
PAGE 9 of 25
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
The Quran didn't spring up from the aether, but is rather built upon the foundation of Christianity, which is built on the foundation of Judaism.
If the book report reads similarly, it's because Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are just three variations of the same story, like a Hollywood hack just kept revving out sequels and re-imaginings to make a buck.
ETA: This is basically how it goes. Jews - We believe in God. Christians - We believe in God + Jesus. Muslims - We believe in God + Jesus + Mohammed. Each one just adds a new chapter to the story while accepting the previous chapters whole, sometimes with minor edits or revisions.
Indeed, you can chase that all the way back to Marduk, and probably long before even then, all the way back to lightning bolts from the sky painted on cave walls, but it's essentially the same story.
And despite my hostility to all three beliefs I do need to point out that up till very recently Islam was prettymuch reformist.
It was in fact Mohammed who brokered the peace of Medina, and the novel (at the time) concept that folks of all beliefs could and should live together without conflict.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina
Furthermore, despite their recent antagonism against Judaism, starting around 1948-1950 in response to some pretty damn serious provocation, and ongoing primarily in response to the Israel-Palestine conflict, historically Muslims had a VERY long history of sheltering Jews from Christian persecution, and were fairly tolerant of Christians right up till 1953 and the assasination of Mossedeigh and replacement with The Shah...
Which turned REALLY hostile in 1979 when they threw his ass down and replaced him with Khomeni, who had every reason in the world to BE pretty hostile about it, but that was more politics than religion, and a primary reason WHY middle easterners as a rule tolerate the radical blackhearts amongst them is that they see them as "the devil you know" a necessary evil as a bulwark against the abuses and exploitation of the west, since they're the ONLY folk who've ever actually had any success putting a boot to the ass of imperialistic invaders, be they european, russian, american or corporate.
Think of those fanatics as a rage-mad guard dog, in between your people, and a bunch of drooling, slavering would-be-slavemasters eyeballing your country with a collar in one hand, a whip in the other, hell bent on stripping your country to the bare fucking bedrock...
And in that moment, you will understand WHY those people tolerate such nimrods - so long as we present such an obvious, blatant and undeniable THREAT, to them, their way of life, all they hold dear, they'd give succor to the very devil hisself to hold us off, and if ole nick takes a beating in the process, so much the better for it.
If we'd left it the fuck alone, it wouldn't come to this, but we supported popping Mossedeigh, we backed The Shah, we built Osama, we backed Saddam when The Shah fell, and we KEEP FUCKING PUSHING, what with Chalabi, and now Kharazi...
When will we ever learn, even the meekest mouse is gonna sink it's teeth into you if you corner it and just keep poking it - maybe if for once, just fucking ONCE, if we left well the hell ALONE those radical assholes wouldn't be able to point to us as a greater threat, would not be able to count on the tacit support of their own, who despite religion want the same things in life anyone does, to live, to love, to raise a family, put food on the table, have dinner, make it with the wife, HUMAN things, curse it.
But take those away, or threaten to, and you leave them nothing TO do but fight you.
It's just that goddamn simple, religion notwithstanding.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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KPO, the problem is that folks brought up Christianity for its similarities with Islam, as just another arguably violent religion which no one is currently objecting to in this country. The argument then is, why are we singling out Islam, exactly? Then the answers come, and the counter arguments.
I think Islam as it exists in certain other countries and owing to the political hierarchies in those particular nations is a good deal more dangerous, more violent than Christianity as it exists here in America today. The people of these nations, understandably, encouraged by a brutal political hierarchy, brutal injustice of all kinds, may themselves be more brutal in their understanding of human nature, than are the citizens of this country. Duh. I don't think anyone would/could dispute that.
But Islam in Iran /= Islam in the USA (Islam in Iran /= even Islam in Indonesia!). This to me is equally indisputable by rational beings. Christianity unfettered by representative democracy and strong secular values would be a good deal more violent than Christianity currently is, as history attests. Were Right Wing Fundamentalist Christians to gain control of our government, I suspect things would be considerably worse, in terms of civil liberties and human rights--you know, for the undesirables.
All theocracies function in this way.
The issue is power--how much power does the church really have? It is not so much Islam that is behind the times (it's a younger religion than Christianity) as it is the political systems of certain countries where Islam is prevalent.
Simply put: our American system has proven itself fully capable of neutering any religion's ambitions to rule this nation by the dictates of its holy book. I dare say our understanding of personal freedom as set down by our Founding Fathers might be just a little more effective in combating Islamism than the nations in the EU. The Nations of Europe are not founded upon various Bills of Rights, oh no. They are founded on many centuries of tradition. For Europe, the issue is a conflict of culture, not principles. For us, a lot of grey areas (tradition vs. tradition) which the Islamists there have exploited (who says your traditions are more traditional than ours!!! We have just as much right to our traditions as you!!! etc.) would simply not be at issue in this country, because we don't base our American way of life on centuries old tradition, we explicitly base our way of life on principles set down in a few documents specifically designed to create order out of the chaos of heterogeneous culture.
We've been down this road many times in our country's young life. When it comes to fighting our Constitution, I promise you, the Islamist got no game (and they know it--that's why they're trying to get us to destroy it for 'em!!! Ah, irony!).
We are in absolutely no danger, demonstrable or implicit, from this Community Center going up in NYC. But our values are being eroded by this continued despicable opposition to it.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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I always come back to FDR's simple phrase, "All we have to fear is fear itself". If we blind ourselves then we will let it slip through our fingers. No one can take it away from us. We lose our freedom by throwing it away with hate and bigotry. Hate is the religion we need to fight. Some may give it a formal name, but that is just a cover. The god that destroyed the Twin Towers was hate, power, or greed; the Islam faith had nothing to do with it.
This is what all the hate that has been spewing out has brought us.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38852372/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler
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One explanation might be that it is something about the conviction (common to all religions) that God is on your side - and therefore must hate your enemies as much as you do.
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That statement is more true in regard to Christianity and Islam than for any other religion. This, of course, is based totally upon man's interpretation of the written word within the Koran and Bible. I cannot intelligently comment upon the written word within the Koran because I've never read it. But I can comment upon the Bible.
It is filled with words and imagery that may be interpreted as God being for those who believe, and those believers being on the side of righteousness striking a blow against evil. Chosen people, chosen or promised lands, riches to those who devote themselves. I have heard preachers urge followers to even abandon family if they don't believe in our lord and savior.
When I was a kid I believed that Jesus, and God, was a good benefactor asking his followers to love the world as He loved it. To me it included family members and strangers alike. All God's children are deserving of his love regardless; "for he so loved the world."
When I was a child, I thought as a child. Now I see it as a scam. Prophets calling upon the flock to reject family who think differently than the collective, to vote for a candidate because he claims to go to church (then, once in quite conveniently forgets how he got there), and generally wants impose their beliefs on those who prefer to live their lives in peace sans God.
Send in your dollars so that we may combat the heathen, the wretched non-believers. The only way to salvation is through yada, yada ad infinitum. Glass cathedrals with golden spires are built in his name. A single man is worshipped and rides around in a bullet-proof vehicle, people kiss his ring. And yet, in the Bible it says: Thou shalt have no other God before me.
And in his name we had the Crusades, the Inquisition and, as a result, finally an offshoot of this belief - Christianity. I don't believe its as apolitical as you say. Most particularly in today's environment. Talk with any Christian today and you will see that this is no longer the case. They believe that the nation's salvation is inextricably linked to repentence of man's sin and evil devotion to non-christian beliefs.
A friend of a friend, who is of the Christian faith, has proudly stated on his Facebook page that he's off to a Palin/Beck rally. And he equated the president with socialist heathens hellbent on taking away the people's rights to bare arms. He's originally from Texas and of mexican desent. He's a hard-working, god-fearing father of 4 who believes what he believes.
He seems to be a decent fellow, pleasant enough in his demeanor and quite generous. Yet, it has been instilled in him this belief that his position is the correct one; and no one will dissuade him. I spoke with him briefly and was asked by his wife, my friend not to talk politics. Anything but that. I quickly found out why. He was convinced the president was going to run the country into the ground.
World conquest? Have you been to a Christian church lately? It is the mission of every Christian to spread the gospel - throughout the world.
Holy War doctrine. Your kidding, right!? It may not be doctrine in the new testament, but I refer you to the paragraph above. Hae you been to a Christian church meeting lately?
To try and tally up a score on an "evil" meter is somewhat naive. Suffice it to say that men, in the name of righteousness, do evil things and claim religious justification to explain their actions. War is war. Let's not sugarcoat it. Religion is used, like any other tool, to justify the taking of what belongs to another - pure and simple.
What is happening today is both Christians and Islamists beating their chest claiming "my religion is better than yours" and killing anyone with an opposite view. War, taking and imposing another's will - pure and simple.
SGG
Tawaba
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Yep, Traveler
"The god that destroyed the Twin Towers was hate, power, or greed; the Islam faith had nothing to do with it."
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Hate, power, greed and fear is what the Extremists around the world worship. All extremists, from all walks and beliefs. It is used to enslave and control those who submit without question.
SGG
Tawabawho?
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Which is exactly what my signature line refers to, yes.
And I also dispute that our governmental principles "fully" neutered Christianitys influence, and will continue to do so until I don't have laws written BY them dictating MY behavior according to THEIR morality.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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You're one o' these glass-half-empty type o' guys, now, ain'tcha? 
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And yet, those darn Muslims still have that property, that darn freedom of religion thing, AND that darn freedom of speech thing.
Go figure.
Building a mosque on the site of ground zero is wrong. Everyone knows it, at their core.
Even if they have the right, that still doesn't mean they should build there. It won't accomplish the alleged goals we're being told, the 'building of bridges', will not happen. The reactions , locally and across the nation, are proof of that fact.
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Quote:
One explanation might be that it is something about the conviction (common to all religions) that God is on your side - and therefore must hate your enemies as much as you do.
Perhaps. The rest of this post feels a little like fear mongering of a different sort.
Most of those Christians, those paranoid wacky deluded Christians bristling with guns work 40 hour per week jobs and come back home exhausted. They don't know how to organize or how to fight, so they go to some political rally organized by someone else feeding off their fears to feel like they're making a difference but not actually doing anything about it. They are tame, trained, and contained.
Most of the people who become your Timothy McVeigh, your Unibomber, your Al Qaeda mook were pushed off the deep end, and I have my ideas on who I think did the pushing, and here's a hint, it wasn't their Imams or Ayatollahs or their preachers. The average person in the world doesn't have a clue how to organize a resistance or execute an elaborate terrorist plot on their own. You might get a few punk kids, like the stereotypical 14 year old Palestinian suicide bomber, who's the exact same mentally as the Columbine Highschool Shooters, the exact same as the Detroit punks using their cover being Christian missionaries to try break into mini-Frem's home and get tossed out on their ass. It's not about the religion for them, not really, it's about rage and hatred for the world and justifications and wanting to be admired or feared and to take what they want. Droogs walking down the street drinking at milk bars.
Non-extremist Muslims in the middle east, and there are some, face extremism every moment of their lives. Americans face a different problem, no less prevalent, occupying all our time. Both are just happy to get through the day with dinner on their table, like Frem said. End result is the same, peons stay DOWN and the world never changes. That's the point.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
We are in absolutely no danger, demonstrable or implicit, from this Community Center going up in NYC. But our values are being eroded by this continued despicable opposition to it.
Do you think all opposition to it is based on people thinking Islam=Terrorists?
I'm also curious about the message this sends to the world... certainly it's many messages depending on what part of the world. Some say it shows our strength and our faith in our constitution and Freedom and The American Way, but how would it play in China? France? Taliban? I wonder how Islamic extremists would view the mosque/C-Center going up there?
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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