It's worse than we know
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, August 29, 2025 14:55
VIEWED: 15311
PAGE 18 of 25
What happened ? Not real sure I get your meaning.
The thread was started just over a month after the explosion on the DWH, and over 2 weeks ago from today.
Not much has " happened ", is kinda the point. Except for finger pointing, claims that " everything that can be done is being done ", tough sounding comments about litigation and " kicking ass " 
and putting boots on the necks of BP, but very little else. The oil's still gushing, at rates far above what we were told ( thus my point on the thread made all the more true ) and the wetlands are dying. Not being messed up, by DYING.
Billy Nungesser is right. There won't be any " clean up " of the oil along much of LA's coast. The damages is already done. This isn't , like he referenced, a case where you can get volunteers to comb the beach pick up the oil, and it'll be back to normal. This won't be like some post 4th of July trash pick up....
Too many are running around, trying to score political points, spinning the issue, and the oil is still spreading across the gulf coast....
It's madness. Utter madness.
" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.
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Simple equation, Sig. He got a shock, and it's been working on him ever since.
Fear leads to anger leads to hate. Everyone needs someone to blame, and given his feelings on Obama and the administration, it's only natural that would manifest itself into blame. Given his RWA mentality, that blame will never be shifted, no matter what the facts. Since we know Crappy's tendency to hate and lack of self-control, it really could go no other direction than the one it has.
Surprised you didn't figure that out for yourself--tho' I'm pretty sure you did, that your post was just a way of saying "you started out expressing the horror many feel it's a shame you reverted to politics and letting your anger take over." Am I wrong?
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off
To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor
To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor
To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor
To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor
...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...
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Niki- You're right. Rappy always winds up with "blame Obama", as if BP's cost cutting had nothing to do with the disaster. And I'm SURE that Rappy will respond with .... BP is innocent until proven guilty. Just like Bush. But the same courtesy will not be extended to Obama, because he's a Dem.
Rappy, it is a disaster. We all feel it. There is PLENTY of blame to go around, but that blame starts with BP, which has the next quarterly statement as its main goalpost, and crossed fingers as its disaster-planning.
Where the Federal government deserves blame is for not diligently regulating BP to save it- and all of us- from BP's own worst excesses. The governments in the gulf states are thoroughly saturated with oil money, and that starts at county/ parish level and goes all the way up through the governorships, state legislatures, Congressmen, local employees of Federal agencies, up to and including Ken Salazar (who has always had a soft spot for offshore drilling). No matter how much they huff and puff, there will not be a single step towards tighter regulation or re-review of disaster preparedness plans which comes from that region. Nearly anything that any of the local/ state politicians say... whether Repub or Dem... is sheer showboating and blamestorming.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Niki- You're right. Rappy always winds up with "blame Obama", as if BP's cost cutting had nothing to do with the disaster. And I'm SURE that Rappy will respond with .... BP is innocent until proven guilty. Just like Bush. But the same courtesy will not be extended to Obama, because he's a Dem.
Rappy, it is a disaster. We all feel it. There is PLENTY of blame to go around, but that blame starts with BP, which has the next quarterly statement as its main goalpost, and crossed fingers as its disaster-planning.
Actually, no - there ISN'T plenty of blame. This disaster has 1 direct cause - the failure of the blow out preventer ( BOP ).
I know, folks like to speak of a "climate" of misconduct / deregulation / blah,blah blah... what ever, but all that talk is mind numbing pablum, to make policy wonks and PR doctors get everyone's attention off the ACTUAL cause and instead help them promote the agenda which they'd rather have us buy. Like Obama using this disaster to promote Cap and Trade ( which is exactly what he's stated he's going to do, btw ) a useless piece of legislation that could not have LESS to do w/ this disaster.
Quote:
Where the Federal government deserves blame is for not diligently regulating BP to save it- and all of us- from BP's own worst excesses. The governments in the gulf states are thoroughly saturated with oil money, and that starts at county/ parish level and goes all the way up through the governorships, state legislatures, Congressmen, local employees of Federal agencies, up to and including Ken Salazar (who has always had a soft spot for offshore drilling). No matter how much they huff and puff, there will not be a single step towards tighter regulation or re-review of disaster preparedness plans which comes from that region. Nearly anything that any of the local/ state politicians say... whether Repub or Dem... is sheer showboating and blamestorming.
See, this is where you have it bass - ackwards, 100% . Yes, the regulation issue needs to be addressed, but we can't shut down all off shore oil rigs ( and put 1000's more out of work ) across the board, simply because of 1 event. Maybe suspend similar rigs, but ALL of them ? Pure idiocy. Mindless pandering that'll do nothing to solve the problem and only cause more needless strife and hardships.
From not waiving the Jones Act, to suspending all off shore oil drilling and now using the nation's worst disaster to promote his own POLITICAL goals.... this President is quickly showing his utter incompetence along w/ this unconscionable hubris and disconnect w/ reality.
" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.
" ...the whole point of swearing is that it ain't appropriate. " - Kaylee
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Rappy, thanks for your on-target response. Yes, the blowout preventer failed. But why? Nobody knows, because although the BOPs were not DESIGNED for deep water drilling, they were shoved into deepwater service. And when they had minor failures, as they frequently did, instead of investigating WHY they failed they were repaired (seals and components replaced) and shoved right back into service.
Here's another possible flaw- the word came from on high the day of the blowout to substitute seawater for drilling mud because the drilling was taking too long. And drilling was costing BP millions of dollars a day. The drilling crew was mightily unhappy about it. Did they actually make the switchover BEFORE the blowout? I don't know. But BP apparently made decision after decision to forgo safety in favor of going cheap.
Quote:
BP took measures to cut costs in the weeks before the catastrophic blowout in the Gulf of Mexico as it dealt with one problem after another, prompting a BP engineer to describe the doomed rig as a "nightmare well," according to internal documents released Monday. The comment by BP engineer Brian Morel came in an e-mail April 14, six days before the Deepwater Horizon rig explosion that killed 11 people and has sent tens of millions of gallons of oil into the Gulf in the nation's worst environmental disaster. The e-mail was among dozens of internal documents released by the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which is investigating the explosion and its aftermath.
In a letter to BP CEO Tony Hayward, Reps. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., and Bart Stupak, D-Mich., noted at least five questionable decisions BP made in the days leading up to the explosion...
"Time after time, it appears that BP made decisions that increased the risk of a blowout to save the company time or expense," the lawmakers wrote in the 14-page letter to Hayward. "If this is what happened, BP's carelessness and complacency have inflicted a heavy toll on the Gulf, its inhabitants, and the workers on the rig."
... The letter by Waxman and Stupak focuses on details such as the design of the well, saying that the company apparently chose a riskier option among two possibilities to provide a barrier to the flow of gas in space surrounding steel tubes in the well. Despite warnings from its own engineers "BP chose the more risky casing option, apparently because the liner option would have cost $7 to $10 million more and taken longer," Waxman and Stupak said.
In the brief e-mail, Morel said the company is likely to make last-minute changes in the well. "We could be running it in 2-3 days, so need a relative quick response. Sorry for the late notice, this has been nightmare well which has everyone all over the place," Morel wrote. BP apparently rejected advice of a subcontractor, Halliburton Inc., in preparing for a cementing job to close up the well. BP rejected Halliburton's recommendation to use 21 "centralizers" to make sure the casing ran down the center of the well bore. Instead, BP used six centralizers. In an e-mail on April 16, a BP official involved in the decision explained: "It will take 10 hours to install them. I do not like this." Later that day, another official recognized the risks of proceeding with insufficient centralizers but commented: "who cares, it's done, end of story, will probably be fine." A spokesman for BP could not immediately reached for comment.
Another issue was the disaster plan. BP's plan was SO cut-and-paste from its other operations that it mentions sea lions (sea lions!). There was no real disaster plan; no tested equipment nearby; no backup plans... nothing other than generic hand-waving that they stamp on EVERY environmental impact statement... lots of soothing words, no meat. If the Mines and Minerals folks had done a real review, the drilling would not have started until something credible and actual was in-place. Instead they waved it on.
I don't think they should shut down every oil rig. First of all, it's probably not a safe thing to do. But
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There 'ya go, Sig, just as you predicted.
So. The blowout preventer, eh? In a nutshell:
Ten years ago (Bush’s presidency) MMS raised the alarm for catastrophic spill which could be avoided by a backup blowout preventer, but didn’t require the system
Other countries require backup blowout preventers;
In 2003 (Bush’s presidency) a report showed flaw in the single blowout preventer’s deadman switch. Nothing was done.
Oil workers often refuse to arm the dead-man switch anyway because the blowout preventer might activate unnecessarily, causing downtime.
Unnecessarily downtime could cost $10 million.
Minerals Management Service did not force rigs to have audio control devices which would activate blowout preventer remotely.
Other countries require such devices.
Pushback from oil industry eased requirements for new technology.
Other countries demand they make them mandatory.
MMS declined to make them mandatory.
Here’s the backupQuote:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/10/oil.well.preventers/index.html
The final safety switch for a blowout preventer that has lost communication with its oil rig is the "deadman" system that's supposed to trigger the blowout preventer to shut the well. It did not activate during the Transocean April 20th rig explosion. Another study West Engineering Services prepared for the Minerals Management System in 2003 found flaw with the deadman system.
"The most serious drawback to this system ...is the mind set of the rig personnel. Many operator and contractor personnel refuse to arm the system from fear that it will either not operate when needed or activate inappropriately, causing downtime. Such downtime can be extremely costly. If the blowout preventer cuts through drilling pipe it can easily cost $10-million to replace that section of pipe and put the rig back into production.
Drilling operations not subject to the administration's six-month deepwater drilling moratorium have until the end of the month to:
-- Provide independent third party verification of the safety and effectiveness of blowout preventers;
-- Install a secondary control system for subsea blowout preventers (current regulations do not require such a backup);
-- And, adhere to new inspection and reporting requirements for blowout preventers.Quote:
http://blogs.chron.com/newswatchenergy/archives/2010/05/probe_sought_o
At issue are regulations that were implemented during the last decade by the Interior Department and its royalty-overseeing agency, the Minerals Management Service, regarding the use of back-up systems such as blowout prevention devices. BP, which leased the Deepwater Horizon rig in the Gulf of Mexico, has been unable to activate a blowout preventer and stop an estimated 5,000 barrels of oil flowing from three leaks in a crumpled pipe about a mile underwater.
Minerals Management Service did not force rigs to have audio control devices that would allow them to remotely activate a wellhead's blowout preventer in case of a problem. Other major countries that permit offshore drilling require rigs to carry such devices.
Sen. Bill Nelson asked for a review of the development of regulations on blowout preventers and other well controls, as well as the role industry lobbying may have played in shaping the rules. "I ask that you determine in your investigation the extent to which the oil and natural gas industry exercised influence in the agency's rulemaking process," Nelson wrote.
f_1.html Quote:
Alleged regulatory shortfalls are now under investigation by the House Energy and Commerce Committee and the Committee on Natural Resources, which will focus both on the adequacy of BP's risk assessment as well as regulators' role, or culpability, in the disaster.
Official documents show that pushback from the oil industry resulted in easing of requirements for new technologies to prevent the kind of blowout that led to the Deepwater Horizon rig. Pushback from BP and others against installing a new kind of acousti
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There were 6 BP employees on the DWH when it blew.
79 Transocean ( that owned the vessel ) and 41 contract workers.
Quote:
And BTW, only conservation and green energy will save us from being hostage to the middle east, and prevent more oil disasters from occurring by eliminating the need for oil. THAT is the kind of long-term thinking that real leaders need to do to steer the nation in the right direction... and don't expect long-term good-for-the-nation thinking from the oil companies or from Walmart (which hasn't seen a job it can't outsource) or any other big business. HOWEVER, IMHO cap-and-trade is a complete friggin' boodnoggle, and Obama can shove it up his ass.
Yeah, and we need another Gov't grant to help out on that enhanced graviton accelerator core we can use to power our....oh, wait. There's no such thing.
We're not "hostage" to the Middle East. Most of our oil doesn't evne come from there. It comes from Canada and Mexico.
Look - " green " energy is a farce. The dream of the electric car has only been dangled in front of consumers for about a hundred years. All that time, and it still is a dream. Oh, sure, we have them now. If you want to spend the extra $$ and make sure you're not too far away from a suitable power source.
We sure as hell shouldn't be using corn to make ethanol. Maybe some sorts of grasses, sugar canes... fine. But not corn!
" Long term " answers will NEVER come from Gov't. Big bureaucracies only hinder and suffocate free thinking on such matters.
But all this crap is for another discussion. NOT NOW!
We need to cap that fucking gusher, and do what ever we can to protect what beach front property we still have.
" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.
" ...the whole point of swearing is that it ain't appropriate. " - Kaylee
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Niki... .
you want to blame Bush for this ? Fine. Have at it. 2 can play at that game.
Quote:http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2010/06/10/clinton-catalyzed-gulf-oil-d
CLINTON CATALYZED GULF OIL DRILLING BOOM
In 1995, President Clinton signed the Outer Continental Shelf Deepwater Royalty Relief Act which exempted oil wells drilled deep in the Gulf from the normal royalty payments they would normally have owed the government for their oil.
Usually, these payments amount to between 12% and 16% of their revenues, so exemption from this requirement did a great deal to catalyze drilling in deep waters in the Gulf of Mexico. As a result of the Administration action, deepwater oil production in the Gulf increased rapidly, growing from 42 million barrels annually in 1996 to 348 million in 2004. The latter figure represents about 6% of total United States oil consumption and about 15% of domestic production. Natural gas production from deepwater Gulf drilling increased tenfold during the same period.
rilling-boom/
But what's Obama done in the past 50+ days ?
Played golf, gone to concerts, fund raisers, weekend getaways to Chicago, met w/ championship winning athletic teams, failed to waive the Jones Act, played golf some more.....
I'm placing blame squarely on who has failed at being an effective leader.
You have a problem with that ? Think about all that oil you're ankle deep in, and think...." if only something had been done while this stuff was still out at sea... "
" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.
" ...the whole point of swearing is that it ain't appropriate. " - Kaylee
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"if only something had been done while this stuff was being regulated to keep it from gushing... "
"if only something had been done when this stuff was supposedly being inspected... "
Too easy...
Yeah, and deregulation was loosened up so much when Clinton was in office that afterwards we had this huge, gigantic gusher from all those wells in the Gulf that weren't kept up to snuff...oh, wait, no, that was after BUSH left office. Ooops, my bad.
If you really think energy other than coal and gas is a pipe dream, you're gonna have an awfully hard time in the coming years. Anyone tell you OIL IS FINITE?? Probably not...
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off
To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor
To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor
To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor
To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor
...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...
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