Real World Event Discussions

FINALLY! Biden goes after Israel!!!

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 19, 2024 17:55
VIEWED: 9512
PAGE 9 of 11

AURAPTOR

Monday, March 15, 2010 3:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Truest words on this thread.

All the "Please enlighten me" blah blah blah, then you tell him, & he yells bullshit.
He knows everything & can be told nothing. If it doesn't fit into his world view, it's lies.

And this is different from the gang of Leftists on here - how, exactly ?

Oh, I know! I don't start w/ the knee jerk reaction of calling you LIARS on everything which we disagree. So, there is that.

Quote:

Niki is obviously not sick enough of his crap to dismiss him, even when he pretends to be reasonable.

Only it's not pretending. I'm at least ATTEMPTING reason here, which is FAR more a courtesy than some( most )have extend to me. I stated, in clear, direct and non inflammatory manner how I saw the issues and simply asked where it is we diverge on the facts. For that, I'm labeled as 'unreasonable' or a 'liar' by some.

It just don't make no sense no how.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

CHRISISALL

Monday, March 15, 2010 3:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'm at least ATTEMPTING reason here, which is FAR more a courtesy than some( most )have extend to me. I stated, in clear, direct and non inflammatory manner how I saw the issues and simply asked where it is we diverge on the facts.

Thanx for the laff.

The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

GINOBIFFARONI

Monday, March 15, 2010 5:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Truest words on this thread.

All the "Please enlighten me" blah blah blah, then you tell him, & he yells bullshit.
He knows everything & can be told nothing. If it doesn't fit into his world view, it's lies.

And this is different from the gang of Leftists on here - how, exactly ?

Oh, I know! I don't start w/ the knee jerk reaction of calling you LIARS on everything which we disagree. So, there is that.

Quote:

Niki is obviously not sick enough of his crap to dismiss him, even when he pretends to be reasonable.

Only it's not pretending. I'm at least ATTEMPTING reason here, which is FAR more a courtesy than some( most )have extend to me. I stated, in clear, direct and non inflammatory manner how I saw the issues and simply asked where it is we diverge on the facts. For that, I'm labeled as 'unreasonable' or a 'liar' by some.

It just don't make no sense no how.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

I think the biggest problem Rappy is we have been down that road on this very subject

You don't think the IDF or Israel can or have done wrong...

enough separate sources have been posted over the years, Media, UN, even Israeli sources

but you continue to dismiss it.

If both side are wrong, then why is one side backed unconditionally?

Looking at even the Israeli death totals, the deaths totals are so lop sided and response so out of proportion... it has to make you wonder

as for Gaza, herding them all on to one piece of land doesn't make it a country...

especially when all the source of water and any decent farmlard was cherry picked

and Israel kept control on all border access, money transfers, electrical and water

but I am so sure you will dismiss this, I just don't see the point. Your mind is so made up... why should I try to change it

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

NIKI2

Monday, March 15, 2010 5:48 PM

Frem, I'm glad you wrote

Quote:
Ah, not how I meant it - was that they were every bit as guilty as anyone else, and it's offensive that we are supposed to pretend they were perfect little angels prior to WWII and the atrocities visited upon them, that's ridiculous, they are, AND were, just as boneheaded, fulla shit, and capable of being assholes as anyone else.

Hopefully that will help Mincing see that you weren't concemning Jews, just giving background...which we could give on ANY sect of religion, any nationality, down through history.

Anyone ever see "Gentleman's Agreement"? Very old movie, about a guy who pretended to be Jewish, let the rumor mill run with it, then saw what happened. It was an unpleasant reaction to watch, but the movie was classic as to how Jews were treated earlier in American history.

I still say it's looking for a reasonable answer to an unreasonable attitude, which has been true of any "other" in any society. Applies to African Americans even more, tho' since they were originally slaves, it's expected that it would be harder to change the mind set.

Humans fear the unknown, and fear is usually turned to hate--THAT's the reasonable answer to the reasonable question. They still do and probably always will, sadly. Strange little species, we are...

Raptor, yes, you seem to be asking civil questions. But given they've been answered IN DEPTH here and before, it's bound to make one wonder if you're really asking seriously or not. I've not seen you give one INCH, and your statement that "No one wants to hold the PLO/ Hamas accountable, but all HELL breaks loose if Israel dares to color outside of the lines or screws up ONCE" is so outside reality that I can't help but question your motives. We hear all the time about how horrible Hamas, etc., are, and have to dig to find out about the atrocities of Israel (in this country), that what you said doesn't make sense. So I'm quitting trying to "answer" what I don't think are actual questions, however civilly they may be posed.

I haven't called you any names...if it were possible, I'd suggest you treat people as they treat YOU, rather than lumping and calling anyone who disagrees with you (which I recognize you haven't done to me, in this thread). But I'm pretty convinced you'd neither hear me nor care.

The time involved in trying to respond to your questions just isn't worth it, when it does no good.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

MINCINGBEAST

Monday, March 15, 2010 5:57 PM

Frem, if anyone were to accuse you of anti-semitism, it wouldn't be for insufficient fawning, or for your politics, but rather for statements like:

"...well, lets cut the bullshit, no one else wanted them because despite the Muslim tolerance of them on occasion, they acted a hell of a lot like this even BACK THEN too, which is why ole Adolf found it so easy to rile folk up against em - doesn't justify it, but fuck, man, someone has to say it, they *DO* shit like this, they always have, which is also what set the Christians to persecuting them in the first place."

I don't think anyone in this thread has maintained that jews, pre-holocaust, were anything other than people--certainly not innocent angels--and people are flawed. But I do believe that you have maintained, or at least intimated, that the persecution of the jews is historically justified by their actions. Just to be clear. This is where background and condemnation blurr together.

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, March 15, 2010 6:25 PM

Wasn't my intention.

Seriously, folks'd be just as "justified" saying us americans are dictator-supporting pricks, which is in fact true, but of debateable utility in justifying terrorism against em since most of us are against supporting em, and the would-be victims of said terrorism are all too likely to be those people.

What I was busting chops on was the bullshit myth that the jewish people were perfect little angels without a sin in the world when Hitler started riling up people against them, and that they had never engaged in any wrongdoing of their own.

THAT is bullshit, and to start debate from that point frames it in a skewed manner by pre-loading moral questions better asked in a longer historical perspective.

To narrow a debate regarding cultures that have existed for a very long time in proximity to each other to a single decade or century, cherry picked, in this fashion, is inherently dishonest.

That's as bad as the myth that the muslims hate the jews and always have, when in truth they have a much LONGER history of supporting each other against christian persecution, but when you frame the debate so narrowly as to not acknowledge this, you're starting from a dishonest beginning.

And it's kind of a tribute to the strength of that bullshit myth about what perfect little angels they were that when some asshole like me starts poking holes in the story it triggers such a reaction...

-F

MINCINGBEAST

Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:24 PM

frem, i haven't called you asshole, or anything else for that matter. unless i have, in which case, please excuse me for being an asshole. all i've tried to do is call your attention to some of the words you've used. i appreciate your response, but still maintain that there is a world of difference between asserting that no, contrary to our pious holocaust narratives, some jews sucked; and blaming the victim for their victimization. just be sensitive to how one easily blends into the other, is all i would ask of you.

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:38 PM

Point taken, but a combination of outrage at the fawning servility we're supposed to treat their current government with, rage at being forced to finance its abuses, and disgust for the whole bloody mess doesn't exactly make that an easy thing to do, yanno.

-F

KPO

Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:15 PM

I can understand people's anger at present day Israel and its actions - Frem, I can't understand your (apparent?) anger at Jews throughout history... What have they done besides being ousted from their native land and living as conspicuous minority in intolerant foreign countries - and generally being the whipping boy of history?

I kind of agree with Mincing: to me, some of those words were dripping with anti-semitism - perhaps fresh from a place you've been swimming recently, some reading material with an anti-jewish message perhaps?

Be careful with this - for people who feel the system is failing and rotten, blaming the unseen hand of 'world jewry' is the oldest, most seductive explanation in the book.

Heads should roll

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, March 17, 2010 1:46 AM

You want it in a nutshell ?

This.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

And that attitude persists in the modern day Likud party, which is still quite a force, politically.

Why is it that pointing out they were just as bad as everyone else in the region is antisemetism, why is it that pointing out they've engaged in terrorism, espionage and sabotage, antisemetism ?

And why is it that despite me saying as much time and time again, that this in no way justifies much of the bullshit pulled on them by others, folks jump right to that assumption on the slightest criticism against their actions ?

Conditioning.

Question it.

-Frem