Real World Event Discussions

FINALLY! Biden goes after Israel!!!

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 19, 2024 17:55
VIEWED: 9512
PAGE 8 of 11

NIKI2

Friday, March 12, 2010 8:09 PM

Hey, hey, hey, just found this:

Quote:
Israel is moving to amend the country's planning procedures on sensitive political decisions following an embarrassing diplomatic flap during a visit this week by U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, a Cabinet minister said Friday.

The change endorsed by a parliamentary legislation committee Thursday will require a representative of the prime minister to be present when development plans are approved. The change aims to ensure the country's leader is not caught off guard by politically charged decisions, as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he was by the approval of 1,600 new homes for Jews in east Jerusalem during Biden's visit.

Both Biden and the Palestinians sharply condemned the Israeli settlement decision.

Netanyahu apologized for the timing, though not the substance, of the announcement.

Biden's trip this week, aimed at renewing Mideast peace efforts as well as repairing Israel-U.S. ties strained precisely by disagreements over Israeli settlement construction, was overshadowed by the Israeli move.

Netanyahu said he was not aware of the decision — announced by Israel's Interior Ministry — before it was made public, and released a statement saying he had reprimanded the Cabinet minister responsible. There has been no indication he took further action against those involved

The proposed amendment to planning procedures was initiated by the country's welfare minister, Isaac Herzog of the centrist Labor Party. "This initiative is necessary to prevent similar mishaps in the future," Herzog said in a statement released by his office Friday.

The amendment must still be approved by parliament.

Israel's announcement of more east Jerusalem construction angered Palestinians, who had agreed only days earlier to begin indirect peace talks with Netanyahu's government, dropping an earlier demand for a full settlement freeze before talks begin. Netanyahu has agreed only to a limited slowdown that does not include east Jerusalem, which Israel sees as part of its capital.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=10081366

Okay, it may be bullshit, nothing may change. But MAYBE, just maybe, Biden made a dent--they want our backing, they know Obama's not the unquestioning Israel backer Dumbya was...maybe? Just maybe?

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

AURAPTOR

Friday, March 12, 2010 10:55 PM

Quote:
There are just as many people who want to wipe MUSLIMS off the earth in my country as there are wanting to wipe Jews off the earth in the Middle East.

There are 300 million Americans. There are over 1.5 billion Muslims in the world....

Americans who want to WIPE Muslims off the face of the Earth? Probably no more than 0.05% of all Americans.( Unless you count the extreme enviro-whack jobs, who want to reduce human population to 500 million, or some such... .)

"Some of my best friends are..... " Yeah, I refuse to use that phrase either, for the simple reason, I don't believe in having a quota for folks I associate. It simply does not apply.

Quote:
I was, in my own vague way, on their side until the past few years. The things they have done and are doing now are just as oppressive as what was done to them...in many cases worse.

I have to assume you mean in RECENT history. Since the founding of Israel. So pease, ENLIGHTEN ME!!

You say that Israel , the Jews, the PEOPLE, how ever you want to phrase it, deserve their own state, and are due the right to live. Fine! We agree! But one must be pragmatic here, and understand, you can't have ANY of those things and not tick off a few folks , especially if those folks happen to have a religious agenda bent against - EVERYONE ELSE.

I guess my biggest gripe would be... much of what the IDF and the Jewish Gov't is ACCUSED of doing is either straight up fabricated or taken greatly out of context, by omitting what was done TO them in the first place, by the other side.

It's like , well, it's like something else I can think of. The terrorists ( not all Muslims, not all Palestinians ) can do anything and everything under the sun, and no one bats an eye. And sure, folks will agree that Israel has a right to defend itself, but when it actually DOES something, the propaganda machines are up and running, at full speed.

No one wants to hold the PLO/ Hamas accountable, but all HELL breaks loose if Israel dares to color outside of the lines or screws up ONCE.

For the life of me, I cannot understand it.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, March 13, 2010 1:05 AM

I think you're mistaking me, Niki.

I am pointing out that they are as guilty as misbehavior previous to WWII as anyone else, and ignoring that fact improperly frames things in a skewed fashion to begin with - doesn't justify nothin, and as for "deserving of condemnation", well shit, if you wanna get on that subject I also pointed out elsewhere that bloody massacre is kinda the usual dispute resolution policy in the middle east and has been for like a thousand years.

Ain't sayin it's RIGHT, just pointing out how it looks to the people involved from an internal point of view, and while every culture has a history of breaking treaties and agreements, it wouldn't be so MUCH an issue if the current government of Israel wasn't so bloody keen on breaking them over and over before the ink is even dry - so yes, other governments, cultures and theologies *are* going to point the finger and say "See? They can not be trusted!" which makes any resolution of the problem that much harder when they actually got a point to it - not that they're not hypocritical in saying so cause not a one of em is innocent, just sayin that folks ARE going to raise the issue of previous misconduct in light of current misconduct.

There's the way things should be, and the way things ARE.
I can't help it if most of the folk involved are crazy, all I can offer is some understanding of that kind of crazy, so maybe we can find some kind of way to subvert it or stem the tide before it all goes to hell.

What I am bitter and angry about isn't Israels existance, or even their conduct so much, although given the sabotage/espionage against us, their so-called ally, I think there's cause...

What I am bitter and angry about is being their bitch.

I really, REALLY hate that, and when seeing civvies massacred with weapons we gave them for pennies on the dollar, or even free, or that they bought with money we gave them - like that white phosphorous, and a lot of burnt up kids...

I get seriously, passionately ANGRY about it, it's like being forced to pay for a serial killers ammunition, to me, folks do what they do, but forcing me to pay such a huge chunk of taxes (as an independant contractor, I get really reamed on em, too!) and then financing this, this, this...

Insentient inhumanity, is all I can call it, how can I not be virulently angry about it ?

As for Rappy, again, historical behavior - you were not here for it, Niki, but those are far from the most racist, hateful and intolerant things he said, and when taken in context with the rest of the crap he was sayin *at the time* very clear in intent and meaning.

Maybe he's mellowed, but I don't buy it, not when he's willing to shovel that "wiped off the map" comment after it's been shot down no less than three times as a deliberate MEMRI mistranslation aimed at demonising Iran.
Here's more info on that for you.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm

The key here, is what it usually is, Israel "agrees" to not keep taking Palestinian land (and mind you, I point out once again the only way to DO this in the middle east is to kill everyone else on it) and before the ink is even dry, goes right on and keeps doing it.
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/03/08/as-peace-talks-loom-more-settlement
s-for-israel/

I don't completely agree with Raimondo, but he's damn sure got a point, and while their own national policy is theirs to set, a lot of people, myself included, are sick of being Israels bitch.
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/03/11/biden-in-israel/

It's all nuts, but the settlement issue is the key, cause them settlers move in, harrass, terrorise and slaughter the locals, and then scream for backup when the Palestinians retaliate, and in comes the IDF to "defend Israeli citizens" by ruthlessly slaughtering anyone who so much as looks at em funny...

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

So what are we gonna do, just let em drive the Palestinians into the sea ?

If we can justify airstrikes on supposed WMD sites, we can damn sure certainly justify them against

GINOBIFFARONI

Saturday, March 13, 2010 2:07 AM

Hell Frem...

Why not call it like it is

NATO bombed the shit out of Serbia over Kosavo, if there is to be any consistency NATO should bomb the shit out of Israel until peace is achieved.

Lose the double standards the hard way

( and I would bet that coupled with an Afghan and Iraq withdrawl... troubles with the Muslim world would decrease substantially )

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, March 13, 2010 2:20 AM

Cause here in america you can almost, if not actually, be arrested and charged with "anti-semetic hate speech" for even making such a suggestion without wrapping it in either obfuscation and justifications, or fawning apologism.

That's not hyperbole either, they really do have that much of a lock on our society, media* and politics.

Which is one of the things pissin me off so much.

*-Case in point, the US Mainstream Media gets ALL their translations from MEMRI, which oughta explain a lot on even the slightest investigation of that fact.

-F

GEEZER

Sunday, March 14, 2010 3:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Hey, hey, hey, just found this:
Quote:
Israel is moving to amend the country's planning procedures on sensitive political decisions following an embarrassing diplomatic flap during a visit this week by U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, a Cabinet minister said Friday.

The guests on Diane Rehm's news roundup yesterday seemed to think that the timing of the approval of new settlements was intended by the real hardliners to embarrass Netanyahu.

http://wamu.org/programs/dr/10/03/12.php#30601

Hour 2, about 7:30 in.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

CHRISISALL

Sunday, March 14, 2010 5:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

BTW I'm done arguing with Rappy

lost cause

Truest words on this thread.

All the "Please enlighten me" blah blah blah, then you tell him, & he yells bullshit.
He knows everything & can be told nothing. If it doesn't fit into his world view, it's lies.
Niki is obviously not sick enough of his crap to dismiss him, even when he pretends to be reasonable.

The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

NIKI2

Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:24 PM

Yes, I mean relatively recent history. I’ve actually posted about specific Israeli atrocities before, so I’m not gonna repeat myself (probably would have to spend too much time hunting for those specifics anyway). But saying “much of what the IDF and the Jewish Gov't is ACCUSED of doing is either straight up fabricated or taken greatly out of context, by omitting what was done TO them in the first place, by the other side” is either disingenuous, ignorant of the facts, or brainwashing. There’s tons of stuff you can find if you like on the internet:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11683
http://www.socialistaction.org/foley136.htm
http://www.kawther.info/wpr/2009/03/08/austrians-and-palestinians-agai
nst-israeli-war-crimes-in-gaza
Austria: http://www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/resources/commentary-and-analysis/
57-broken-the-silence
Germany: http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116469§ionid=351020604
Ireland: http://www.kawther.info/wpr/2009/01/14/irish-foreign-minister-condemns
-israeli-atrocities
America: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/apr2002/demo-a16.shtml
Israeli human rights group: http://www.midwestfreepress.com/2009/09/12/human-rights-group-exposes-
israeli-atrocities/

Even Israeli soldiers have testified to their actions:

Quote:
On March 19th, two months after the 22-day devastation of Gaza and the slaughtering of over 1,400 Palestinians, the Israeli daily newspaper Ha'aretz published harrowing testimonies by numerous Israeli soldiers who had participated in "Operation Cast Lead." The soldiers, all recent graduates of the Yitzhak Rabin pre-military preparatory program, were speaking at an open academic forum about their recent military experiences and, as Sarah Anne Minkin of Jewish Peace News reports, "confessed that they'd knowingly shot civilians to death in Gaza, that they'd intentionally vandalized Palestinian homes, and that the rules of engagement in the war - rules handed down from above - were exceptionally permissive."

http://www.wideasleepinamerica.com/2009/04/rotten-orchard.html

Quote:
"The nation of Israel is pure and the Arabs are a nation of donkeys. They are an evil disaster, an evil devil, and a nasty affliction. The Arabs are donkeys and beasts. They want to take our girls. They are endowed with true filthiness. There is pure and there is impure and they are impure."
--Rabbi David Batzri, head of the Magen David Yeshiva in Jerusalem [Israeli newspaper Haaretz, March 21, 2006]
"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine.html

Quote:
Israeli soldiers admit atrocities against Palestinians

http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?news_iv_ctrl=0&cmd=articles&page=News
Article&id=12683&start=1

As to “No one wants to hold the PLO/ Hamas accountable, but all HELL breaks loose if Israel dares to color outside of the lines or screws up ONCE”, that is just plain wrong. We hear all about Hamas and the PLO and anything they’ve done wrong, but what we DON’T hear about Israeli atrocities, the rest of the world does. Our media is biased and reflects our government, period.

Frem, I’m glad you clarified to agree “that bloody massacre is kinda the usual dispute resolution policy in the middle east and has been for like a thousand years”, tho’ I don’t think it’s limited to the Middle East. Bearing in mind that I am arguing against Israel’s actions as well, quite fervently, my only objection is that you were essentially saying the JEWS deserved condemnation throughout history, and there I disagree and say many religions/nations do as well.

Gino is putting it into context to a degree; there is a double standard at work and has been throughout the US’ history. There is censorship of the news in our country so that people believe that Israel is merely defending itself, while we don't hear much about their atrocities against the Palestinians.

Chris, I’m as sick of his crap as anyo

NIKI2

Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:36 PM

Geezer, you may well be right...and they may wonder, too:

Quote:
Israel to probe housing announcement

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has set up a team to investigate why officials announced new settlement construction in disputed territory while U.S. Vice President Joe Biden was visiting the country.

Netanyahu announced the probe Sunday after a meeting with ministers the day before.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/03/14/israel.biden/index.html?hpt=
T2
May well be a move to derail any possible "peace talks"...maybe they got too close to actually talking? (Gawd forbid, of course!)

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:32 PM

Niki

Quote:
Frem, I’m glad you clarified to agree “that bloody massacre is kinda the usual dispute resolution policy in the middle east and has been for like a thousand years”, tho’ I don’t think it’s limited to the Middle East.

True, just that the blood soaked sands the middle east are so notorious for it, and imho it's idiotic, I mean, what, really, has it ever much SOLVED ?
Especially when you look back over a thousand years and see how little has changed - I mean, I bust on americans for never seeming to learn from our mistakes, sure, but we're very much not alone in that one!

Quote:
Bearing in mind that I am arguing against Israel’s actions as well, quite fervently, my only objection is that you were essentially saying the JEWS deserved condemnation throughout history, and there I disagree and say many religions/nations do as well.

Ah, not how I meant it - was that they were every bit as guilty as anyone else, and it's offensive that we are supposed to pretend they were perfect little angels prior to WWII and the atrocities visited upon them, that's ridiculous, they are, AND were, just as boneheaded, fulla shit, and capable of being assholes as anyone else, so they are neither paragons of virtue or villainry, although their current government seems hell bent on it to a degree that strikes me as some form of insanity-as-policy, rooted in a deep cultural fear triggered by memories of those atrocities...

Which is why I am very much concerned about that chain of foolishness continuing if Palestine should follow down that dark road and start oppressing some *other* culture eighty to a hundred years from now.

Better to stop this crap now good and proper, than go for the short term in a fashion that all but guarantees it rearing it's head back up in the future.

Quote:
Gino is putting it into context to a degree; there is a double standard at work and has been throughout the US’ history. There is censorship of the news in our country so that people believe that Israel is merely defending itself, while we don't hear much about their atrocities against the Palestinians.

Yeah that drives me into spirals of rage, as I said, it's not just our support of it, but my money payin for it...

Thing is, we talk and we talk, but until I see that flow of cash and weapons stop, or even slow down in the slightest, I don't buy a word of it - all the condemnations in the world don't mean a damned thing when we're still funnelling our resources to em at firehose velocity.

Our so-called-leaders address THAT, I might do something other than sneer at them when they start whining and whinging.

-F