FINALLY! Biden goes after Israel!!!
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 19, 2024 17:55
VIEWED: 9512
PAGE 5 of 11
I tend to defend Israel on two bases:
That however 'benevolently' Israel acted, people would still be determined to wipe it out - so pacifism isn't viable.
And although it is by far the stronger party in the conflict, it takes both parties to make peace.
That said, the constant settlement building angers me, and seems completely inexcusable. I would like to hear somebody make a defense case for it. Auraptor?
Heads should roll
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Ain't tryin to justify any of it, it's all nuts.
Just tryin to explain the WHY, such as can be done with a situation this insane, and point out that were we to make the moral decision of cutting them off financially, politically, and militarily, they're likely to either get obliterated or start WWIII, neither of which are particularly nice options.
Desperate people do some pretty horrible things, and desperate they were, back THEN - there's no excuse to continue that behavior, especially when they've pressed Palestine to the wall and made THEM desperate, which just feeds the cycle.
As stated, it takes both sides to make peace, and alas that Israel ain't havin any of it.
Tell me folks, how many of these "agreements" have they *not* broken, usually before the ink is even dry ?
Bueller ?
Anyone ?
-F
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Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
That said, the constant settlement building angers me, and seems completely inexcusable. I would like to hear somebody make a defense case for it. Auraptor?
On this matter, I can not. I don't know why it's deemed necessary to go forth in building these settlements , unless ( and I'm only guessing here ) it's thought that no compromise can be made w/ those who'd lob rockets at civilians. But it may be entirely something else all together.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
They might have wanted it, but they never would have gotten it without... therefore it was " pay back "
hell without the post WW2 guilt, they would have been hunted down as terrorists... which they were
I use to think as you. I guess it's all in how you're taught history.
The Brits weren't going to hold onto the land forever.
It was more a fire sale / give away than " pay back ". 10's of 1000's of Jews had been immigrating into the area long before 1948.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
But even today after decades of immigration, after all the Arab and Palestinian people that moved or were driven out
Jewish people are still a minority compared to the Arab / Druze / Palestinian demographic...
the numbers do get a bit distorted as since about 2002 you need to add the occupied territorys as a seperate demographic.. but considering what was Palestine in 1948 it remains true
What sort of government would the Brits have left if not for WW2 ? and when would they have left ?
Would be the questions...
I doubt they would have left things as there are now...
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
That said, the constant settlement building angers me, and seems completely inexcusable. I would like to hear somebody make a defense case for it. Auraptor?
On this matter, I can not. I don't know why it's deemed necessary to go forth in building these settlements , unless ( and I'm only guessing here ) it's thought that no compromise can be made w/ those who'd lob rockets at civilians. But it may be entirely something else all together.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
or cut off food and supplys from a population
or use WP shells on a population
or bulldoze people out of their homes
or shoot farmers while they work their fields
etc, etc , etc
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Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
I tend to defend Israel on two bases:
That however 'benevolently' Israel acted, people would still be determined to wipe it out - so pacifism isn't viable.
And although it is by far the stronger party in the conflict, it takes both parties to make peace.
That said, the constant settlement building angers me, and seems completely inexcusable. I would like to hear somebody make a defense case for it. Auraptor?
Heads should roll
I don't think it is defensible
but from what little I know about internal Israeli politics there is elements who want to push for all the land they can claim...
and with coalition governments already on the far right... not a hard sell for them to keep building to appease some of these factions in order to stay in power.
Take a look at a map that shows the weird borders they are trying to push as well...
they are grabbing all the water, lakes, rivers, resourses they can... any decent farm land, etc
ten years from now, no manner of negotiation will move the settlers off
Israel will keep this going as long as they can to keep grabbing bits and pieces here and there.
Two Questions...
Does Israel have the right to wipe other people out ?
Do you think Israel has negotiated in good faith.. ever ?
I think the Palestinians often shoot themselves in the foot with crazy looking leaders making wacky declarations... but then again mind you... any time it looks like anyone could bring their factions together... Israel seems to find a reason to whack him.
While it is hard to negotiate with a mob
when you whack anybody who could become a leader which you could sit down with... it is a mob of your own creation
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Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
or cut off food and supplys from a population
or use WP shells on a population
or bulldoze people out of their homes
or shoot farmers while they work their fields
etc, etc , etc
Yeah, WP shells were used. Illegally or w/ intent on civilians ? Not proven. Overlooking the fact that Pal militants routinely hide behind or under civilian buildings, knowing full well the Israelis are reluctant to shoot, with the world looking on. But there's only so much one can stand before their hand is forced. Much of the alleged atrocities the Israelis are blamed for are in fact the fault of the Pal Gov't themselves.
Bulldozers, shooting folks....sorry, I don't find such claims to be so credible as presented at face value.
On such matters, the REST of the story needs to be told.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Two Questions...
Does Israel have the right to wipe other people out ?
Do you think Israel has negotiated in good faith.. ever ?
Two answers - yes and yes.
When others have vowed to wipe YOU out, then it's o.k. to wipe them out first.
Didn't Israel give UP land ? Something like GAZA ? And how was that GOOD FAITH deed repaid ? Rockets. Not a few or a few dozen, but 1000's of rockets.
When have the PALS ever negotiated in good faith ?
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
or cut off food and supplys from a population
or use WP shells on a population
or bulldoze people out of their homes
or shoot farmers while they work their fields
etc, etc , etc
Yeah, WP shells were used. Illegally or w/ intent on civilians ? Not proven. Overlooking the fact that Pal militants routinely hide behind or under civilian buildings, knowing full well the Israelis are reluctant to shoot, with the world looking on. But there's only so much one can stand before their hand is forced. Much of the alleged atrocities the Israelis are blamed for are in fact the fault of the Pal Gov't themselves.
Bulldozers, shooting folks....sorry, I don't find such claims to be so credible as presented at face value.
On such matters, the REST of the story needs to be told.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
Israel is the party that has consistently restricted media access
Any lack of info is square on them.
I could post away dozens of news storys at this point... but they have all been put up here before
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/03/2010362141312196.
html
throwing out Palestians to move Jews in
even Israeli folk are protesting these things
Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Two Questions...
Does Israel have the right to wipe other people out ?
Do you think Israel has negotiated in good faith.. ever ?
Two answers - yes and yes.
When others have vowed to wipe YOU out, then it's o.k. to wipe them out first.
Didn't Israel give UP land ? Something like GAZA ? And how was that GOOD FAITH deed repaid ? Rockets. Not a few or a few dozen, but 1000's of rockets.
When have the PALS ever negotiated in good faith ?
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
Great... Then the Taliban are justified in killing every American they can
pre emptive self defense, after all your stated goal is to wipe them out
and any gov the US supports that oppresses anyone... they can start killing Americans by the dozens as well
I would loved to hear what you would have to say after living in Gaza for six months...
perhaps you would have some empathy at least.
Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
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