Well... here 'Fahrenheit 9/11' is.
POSTED BY: Quicksand
UPDATED: Thursday, March 30, 2006 17:02
VIEWED: 28615
PAGE 10 of 13
To gtman8503:
I take exception with many of the things you said in your post. Including but not limiting to your reference to liberals as greedy, rich, elitists. Are there some who are like that? Undoubtedly, but the same could be said of any political leaning.
And as for your generalizations about other countries and cultures (in particular, Arabs, French, and other Europeans), shame on you. Yes, there are a few radicals from those cultures/countries that claim that 9/11 was a Jewish plot supported by Bush. But you know what? Those people are by far in the minority, and the vast majority of other people in their cultures/countries think they're idiots.
And as for your outright dismissal of those holding political views other than your own (I believe your phrase was, "to hell with the left"), I feel sorry for you. Acceptance of opposing viewpoints is what this country is founded on.
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MacBaker- my apologies. I posted before I read all of your posts. That was one of the reasons why I edited it. Unfortunately, Jasonzz was on at the same time I was and beat me to the punch!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:Quote:The issue is about a movie you haven't even seen. You are ignorant until you see it. All of your mean and nasty comments make you look stupid.
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Speak to the issue...
And your comments calling other people Monkeys and dumb, and stupid and not mean, nasty and stupid.
The issue is about MM's dubious and propagandish tactics. There are some things that you absolutely do not need first hand experience (especially when there are plenty enough of base experience - re: all of the other MM films; and lack of evidence and critical review pointing out major differences in tactics and handling) I don't have to smoke crack to know that it's going to wreck havoc on my biochemistry, I don't have to get drunk and kill people to know that it will maim and harm people. Again, get to the point and discuss the issues. Stop sidelining and throw out red-herrings.
Give it a rest with the bullshit come backs and let's talk about how MM's tactics and deception is your new Monkey's master.
I'm sorry, but as long as you haven't actually seen the film, all you're doing is repeating what others have told you. By definition. You can't have formed an opinion of yor own about a movie you haven't seen. This is similar in style to Moore's other films, but since it is not on the same subject, it is not the same film. Therefore, until you have seen it, you are the one mimicking others.
So, if you are determined to keep the argument going, please go see the movie. Then you have fodder for your debate and you can name-call all you want. It will have some legitimacy. Until then, your opinion is irrelevant because you do not have all the facts.
"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."
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Quote:
Originally posted by TomSmeagol:
To gtman8503:
I take exception with many of the things you said in your post. Including but not limiting to your reference to liberals as greedy, rich, elitists. Are there some who are like that? Undoubtedly, but the same could be said of any political leaning.
And as for your generalizations about other countries and cultures (in particular, Arabs, French, and other Europeans), shame on you. Yes, there are a few radicals from those cultures/countries that claim that 9/11 was a Jewish plot supported by Bush. But you know what? Those people are by far in the minority, and the vast majority of other people in their cultures/countries think they're idiots.
And as for your outright dismissal of those holding political views other than your own (I believe your phrase was, "to hell with the left"), I feel sorry for you. Acceptance of opposing viewpoints is what this country is founded on.
Really? Now I am interested in reading about viewpoints from (Arabs, French, and other Europeans in particular) moderates in those areas who doesn't blame the Israeli Jews for all of the problems in the Palestinian areas. I am not joking, I would really like to see what the other end of the arguments are. Somehow, this country's opinions and policies are driven by the need to eradicate the Palestinians and taking their land from them.
I really am not being facetious. I really would like to learn more about this.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Really? Now I am interested in reading about viewpoints from (Arabs, French, and other Europeans in particular) moderates in those areas who doesn't blame the Israeli Jews for all of the problems in the Palestinian areas. I am not joking, I would really like to see what the other end of the arguments are. Somehow, this country's opinions and policies are driven by the need to eradicate the Palestinians and taking their land from them.
I really am not being facetious. I really would like to learn more about this.
Well, you could just go to websites of various newspapers and news channels of those countries. Or go to some political message boards that have a large international representation.
And I'm not sure I agree with you that our opinions and policies are "driven by the need to eradicate the Palestinians and taking their land from them." Polls show that most Americans support an independent Palestinian state--there's just a lot of disagreement about the best way to implement it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:Quote:The issue is about a movie you haven't even seen. You are ignorant until you see it. All of your mean and nasty comments make you look stupid.
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Speak to the issue...
And your comments calling other people Monkeys and dumb, and stupid and not mean, nasty and stupid.
The issue is about MM's dubious and propagandish tactics. There are some things that you absolutely do not need first hand experience (especially when there are plenty enough of base experience - re: all of the other MM films; and lack of evidence and critical review pointing out major differences in tactics and handling) I don't have to smoke crack to know that it's going to wreck havoc on my biochemistry, I don't have to get drunk and kill people to know that it will maim and harm people. Again, get to the point and discuss the issues. Stop sidelining and throw out red-herrings.
Give it a rest with the bullshit come backs and let's talk about how MM's tactics and deception is your new Monkey's master.
I'm sorry, but as long as you haven't actually seen the film, all you're doing is repeating what others have told you. By definition. You can't have formed an opinion of yor own about a movie you haven't seen. This is similar in style to Moore's other films, but since it is not on the same subject, it is not the same film. Therefore, until you have seen it, you are the one mimicking others.
So, if you are determined to keep the argument going, please go see the movie. Then you have fodder for your debate and you can name-call all you want. It will have some legitimacy. Until then, your opinion is irrelevant because you do not have all the facts.
"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."
So, you support MADD, the death penalty(or repealing), or the rights to abortion/ right to life, euthanasia, deployment to Iraq/Afghanistan, as well as who should be in the White House or not. This all from first hand personal experience. Please provide evidence to these things so that I might be edu-me-cated. Golly Gee, mister!
I can read about other's experience and reviews and make my own opinion and assessment. If I didn't have enough information, I would have gone and asked more questions and talked to even more people who have seen it. As it is, at least here, there are a lot of finger pointing and name calling on top of legitimate discussions. If we can lower the noise level of this stuff and go back to some legitimate discussions.
Thanks.
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Quote:
Originally posted by TomSmeagol:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Really? Now I am interested in reading about viewpoints from (Arabs, French, and other Europeans in particular) moderates in those areas who doesn't blame the Israeli Jews for all of the problems in the Palestinian areas. I am not joking, I would really like to see what the other end of the arguments are. Somehow, this country's opinions and policies are driven by the need to eradicate the Palestinians and taking their land from them.
I really am not being facetious. I really would like to learn more about this.
Well, you could just go to websites of various newspapers and news channels of those countries. Or go to some political message boards that have a large international representation.
And I'm not sure I agree with you that our opinions and policies are "driven by the need to eradicate the Palestinians and taking their land from them." Polls show that most Americans support an independent Palestinian state--there's just a lot of disagreement about the best way to implement it.
Sorry, I meant the administration's policies seem to be driven by that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
So, you support MADD, the death penalty(or repealing), or the rights to abortion/ right to life, euthanasia, deployment to Iraq/Afghanistan, as well as who should be in the White House or not. This all from first hand personal experience. Please provide evidence to these things so that I might be edu-me-cated. Golly Gee, mister!
I can read about other's experience and reviews and make my own opinion and assessment. If I didn't have enough information, I would have gone and asked more questions and talked to even more people who have seen it. As it is, at least here, there are a lot of finger pointing and name calling on top of legitimate discussions. If we can lower the noise level of this stuff and go back to some legitimate discussions.
So you would presume to discuss The Matrix, Grapes of Wrath, Siddhartha, or The Hero with a Thousand Faces without watching the movies or reading the books? Is that how you got through high school English? Art is different from strict political information.
I would never presume to discuss MADD, the death penalty(or repealing), or the rights to abortion/ right to life, euthanasia, deployment to Iraq/Afghanistan, as well as who should be in the White House or not without learning something about those subjects. I would not presume to discuss a film, TV show, or a book without reading or watching them.
You can read the bad reviews of Firefly and decide it must suck. Or you can watch it and judge for yourself. So I beg to differ with you. If you want your opinion about a work of art to be relevant, you must actually take a look at it. And whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not, Moore's work is a form of art. And as long as you haven't seen it, you really haven't a clue about its legitimacy.
You can keep putting this off a a "distraction," but from where I sit, this is the core of the argument. You can't argue a subject you don't know. Dont' believe me? Try having an argument some time with a Biblical scholar if you've never read the Bible.
"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."
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Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
So, you support MADD, the death penalty(or repealing), or the rights to abortion/ right to life, euthanasia, deployment to Iraq/Afghanistan, as well as who should be in the White House or not. This all from first hand personal experience. Please provide evidence to these things so that I might be edu-me-cated. Golly Gee, mister!
I can read about other's experience and reviews and make my own opinion and assessment. If I didn't have enough information, I would have gone and asked more questions and talked to even more people who have seen it. As it is, at least here, there are a lot of finger pointing and name calling on top of legitimate discussions. If we can lower the noise level of this stuff and go back to some legitimate discussions.
So you would presume to discuss The Matrix, Grapes of Wrath, Siddhartha, or The Hero with a Thousand Faces without watching the movies or reading the books? Is that how you got through high school English? Art is different from strict political information.
I would never presume to discuss MADD, the death penalty(or repealing), or the rights to abortion/ right to life, euthanasia, deployment to Iraq/Afghanistan, as well as who should be in the White House or not without learning something about those subjects. I would not presume to discuss a film, TV show, or a book without reading or watching them.
So, we have a difference of opinion, so let's talk about it. Instead of bury the subject in red herring. This particular sideline is going no where quick. I have stated my opinion on this sideline and you have yours, unless if there is new information that you would like to bring up. That's it for me...
Now, back to the thread topic at hand:
MM's deception and underhanded tactics in mis-representation of the true images and information.
Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:
You can read the bad reviews of Firefly and decide it must suck. Or you can watch it and judge for yourself. So I beg to differ with you. If you want your opinion about a work of art to be relevant, you must actually take a look at it. And whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not, Moore's work it a form of art. And as long as you haven't seen it, you really haven't a clue about its legitimacy.
You can keep putting this off a a "distraction," but from where I sit, this is the core of the argument. You can't argue a subject you don't know. Dont' believe me? Try having an argument some time with a Biblical scholar if you've never read the Bible.
"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."
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Listening to the opinions of people who haven't even watched the film has become tiresome.
The film is out there now. Go see it. THEN let's discuss. Steal a ticket... sneak in... watch the inevitable bootleg copy that will soon be posted on the 'net.... I don't care!
But please just realize that opining about something you haven't experienced yourself is a sign of laziness.
Thanks and have a great day! 
mattro
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