Well... here 'Fahrenheit 9/11' is.
POSTED BY: Quicksand
UPDATED: Thursday, March 30, 2006 17:02
VIEWED: 28615
PAGE 5 of 13
Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
The truth is somewhere in the middle. I was just playing devil's advocate, by showing a contrasting opinion, but the joke seems to be lost on "even the lowliest among us" here.
Huh? Where's the contrasting view? You seem to be (are) going off on the right. Perhaps you should be more careful when typing next time. And what's the "joke"? Are you off your meds?
Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
BTW: Opinion pieces are called EDITORIALS, not documentarys, and they are always represented as the opinion of the commentator. Mr. Moore makes no such representations, and tries to convince his audience that his opinions are FACT. There's a big difference between an editorial piece and propaganda. Propaganda makers always claim they are giving facts, not opinions!
1) he does use facts, period, that is unless all that news archive footage doesn't count. That is unless all that public documentation doesn't count.
2) he states his opinions and the difference is explicit
3) he stated this *in an interview that I saw*
4) if people can't tell the very explicit difference they have more problems than they know
5) I would like you to direct me to the editorial section of the movie rental store please
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Most major urban centers have a disposel site that takes care of such things for people. Perhaps it's because you live the US that you don't have one. Or maybe you do and you just don't know it.
*** Most CARS end up in junk yards, where they are stripped of any useful parts. An expended fuel cell isn't considered use full. The remaining "husk" of the car is then crushed, and moved to a land fill.
*** Most urban centers DO have disposal and recylce centers for such things, but MOST people don't use them!Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
As a nation, we don't even dispose of nuclear waste properly.
This scares me more than you know.
***Good, we agree on that point!Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
You live in a fantasy world, which probably explains most of your responses to this thread.
LOL, like you're the one that knows all, eh? Or is it just that I don't see things the way you do?
***Actually, as you fail to see, again and again, we do agree on several points. The problem lies in your assumptions. Example: In you fantasy world where all individuals and corporations properly dispose of toxic waste, such as batteriesQuote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
BTW, if I was the right winger you and other small minds believed, I wouldn't be concerned with environmental issues such as this.
LOL, you seem to be assuming that I look at people in a "black and white" way. Perhaps you should look to that before making such inflamitory comments.
*** No, it's fairly clear that I see the greys just fine. You are making the assumptions! LOL
I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.
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Hi Crevanreaver, thanks for the posting. That's a great review. Where's the URL link for the article online?
CREVANREAVER posted:
Unfairenheit 9/11
The lies of Michael Moore.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, June 21, 20
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This was brought up earlier. Mike Wilson's film
should be the film to watch. It promotes the real truth and asking the questions truthfully. It asks it audience to think for themselves with the facts presented as themselves in its own truth form.
I think the link is worthwhile to be brought up again for reference.
http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/trailer_sm.html
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
The truth is somewhere in the middle. I was just playing devil's advocate, by showing a contrasting opinion, but the joke seems to be lost on "even the lowliest among us" here.
Huh? Where's the contrasting view? You seem to be (are) going off on the right. Perhaps you should be more careful when typing next time. And what's the "joke"? Are you off your meds?
*** Let's see if I can make this simple enough for you to comprehend. Moore's movie comes from the extreme left wing (something he easily admits), the review I posted came from the extreme right wing. What could possibly be more contrasting, than a response from someone with completely opposite views from Mr. Moore's. Maybe you don't undertand what the word "contrasting" means. Look it up!Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
BTW: Opinion pieces are called EDITORIALS, not documentarys, and they are always represented as the opinion of the commentator. Mr. Moore makes no such representations, and tries to convince his audience that his opinions are FACT. There's a big difference between an editorial piece and propaganda. Propaganda makers always claim they are giving facts, not opinions!
1) he does use facts, period, that is unless all that news archive footage doesn't count. That is unless all that public documentation doesn't count.
2) he states his opinions and the difference is explicit
3) he stated this *in an interview that I saw*
4) if people can't tell the very explicit difference they have more problems than they know
5) I would like you to direct me to the editorial section of the movie rental store please
*** 1) Which facts are those? The ones where he uses Clarke as his poster boy, or the ones he leaves out, where Clarke has publicly amitted that it wasn't Bush who approved the Bin Laden family flights out of the country, but Clarke himself approved such flights? Or the one where Moore mistakes a summit picture of Bush and Tony Blair, with a vacation? Those "facts"? It's so easy to take things out of context. Many of these so called facts are being contested by political experts all over the country, and many of these experts have no love for the current administration!
*** 2) and 3) Yes, he does state his opinions, but there is no such warning during his movie. You have to get that from other sources, such as this ABC interview.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Random House defines "propaganda" as information, rumors, et cetera, deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, et cetera. By that definition, Fahrenheit 911 is propaganda, isn't it?
MOORE: Well, it's an op-ed piece. It's my opinion about the last four years of the Bush administration. And that's what I call it. I'm not trying to pretend that this is some sort of, you know, fair and balanced work of journalism, even though those who use the words "fair and balanced" often aren't that, but—
Critics of the movie charge that Moore's filmmaking style is deliberately misleading. Stephanopoulos raised two separate issues about the film's accuracy — the first regarding Moore's assertions about the movement of the bin Laden family in the week following 9/11.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Take the issue of the Saudi planes. You make a big issue, a big chunk in the film about this issue where a few days after Sept. 11, many members of the Osama bin Laden family, Saudi nationals, were taken out of the country. It was helped, arranged by the White House. You suggest it was done when the airspace was closed. You suggest that these people were not screened. And you also [suggest] there's a whole sinister subtext there that this was because of the Bush family ties to the bin Laden family. But the 9/11 commission report found that they didn't fly until the airspace was open, that they were screened by the FBI. In fact—
MOORE: That's not true. That's not true. And in fact … there's an FBI agent who was on the al Qaeda task force who's in my movie, who says qNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Mike Wilson's film should be the film to watch. It promotes the real truth and asking the questions truthfully.
Jason, you sound brainwashed. Michael Moore doesn't hate America. This is the real truth? Yeah right.
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Jasonzz.. as usual, you're spouting second-hand opinions. You find the few (very few) negative ones and post them here. And you call Mike Moore a propagandist? And you do this with outrage???
Wait! Wait! I know! You're just trying to "balance the picture!"
MacBaker, Jasonzz, Crevanreaver- GO SEE THE FILM. I don't want to hear your "second-hand" opinions!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Mike Wilson's film should be the film to watch. It promotes the real truth and asking the questions truthfully.
Jason, you sound brainwashed. Michael Moore doesn't hate America. This is the real truth? Yeah right.
Hi Suck-a-Tash:
thanks for calling me a name. But since you sound like an ass - it must be ok. Here's another person's opinion. But this might indeed look very entertaining since I believe that it will use the same tactics that MM uses but in a different way. I think if you contrast that with what MM has/had to offer, it will clearly delineat the what and how these methods are employed to skew an op-ed into a "mock/documentary".
Just agreeing with someone who spouts things that you want to hear makes you a fool - regardless of what false pretense, what manipulative tools, or what deceptive tactics they used. It saids that you are easily manipulated. Find out how he is doing it and whether he really is speaking/skewing/slanting the truth or outright lying. It doesn't matter if they have sweetened it with honey, it's still poison that they are pouring into your ear.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
MacBaker- not only are YOU spouting propaganda, you're a coward as well.
MOST of the reviews if MM's film were very positive. You just "happened" to pick the negative ones. So, when you talk about "selective" presentations, just go look in the mirror.
And then you have the gall to say... "Well I didn't say it, s/he did!"
What a load of cr*p. I'm sorry, but if you're going to argue a viewpoint, don't hide behine someone else.
heh, you asked where the contrasting views are. He gave you some and now you accost him for it. Sheesh.
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Quote:Help me out - What name did I call you?
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Mike Wilson's film should be the film to watch. It promotes the real truth and asking the questions truthfully.
Jason, you sound brainwashed. Michael Moore doesn't hate America. This is the real truth? Yeah right.
Hi Suck-a-Tash:
thanks for calling me a name. But since you sound like an ass - it must be ok. Here's another person's opinion. But this might indeed look very entertaining since I believe that it will use the same tactics that MM uses but in a different way. I think if you contrast that with what MM has/had to offer, it will clearly delineat the what and how these methods are employed to skew an op-ed into a "mock/documentary".
Just agreeing with someone who spouts things that you want to hear makes you a fool - regardless of what false pretense, what manipulative tools, or what deceptive tactics they used. It saids that you are easily manipulated. Find out how he is doing it and whether he really is speaking/skewing/slanting the truth or outright lying. It doesn't matter if they have sweetened it with honey, it's still poison that they are pouring into your ear.
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