Well... here 'Fahrenheit 9/11' is.

POSTED BY: Quicksand
UPDATED: Thursday, March 30, 2006 17:02
VIEWED: 28615
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JASONZZZ

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:01 AM

And he's a sore loser at that too.

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,56524,00.html

MELEE

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:07 AM

*raises hand* Um, ah, not to be rude or anything, and I could be wrong... but wasn't this thread supposed to be a discussion of the movie? When did it turn into an argument about Michael Moore's personal integrity?

SUCCATASH

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:45 PM

Jason, you are not making any sense. Can you please calm down and take a deep breath?

JASONZZZ

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Melee:
*raises hand* Um, ah, not to be rude or anything, and I could be wrong... but wasn't this thread supposed to be a discussion of the movie? When did it turn into an argument about Michael Moore's personal integrity?

Well, the movie is really about MM's opinion, personal viewpoint, and revision and re-interpretation of factual footages and imageries (and doing so make it a lie) So, it would be valid to talk about the methods he used present and past. It would be legitimate to reveal them as well as to compare and contrast them. A critical review often discusses the director's motivation thru his personal lives and all of his works.

JASONZZZ

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:

Jason, you are not making any sense. Can you please calm down and take a deep breath?

Read the post again, read it 30 times if you have to. Get them into those coconuts of yours. Then respond correctly and appropriately.

Stop with the "you sound brainwashed, you sound agitated, you sound crazy" bullcrap. The red herring detractors are not working. Speak to the issue, give some good examples for feedback. Provide some supporting statements. Sheesh.

COWARD

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 3:28 PM

Just to clear up some technical errors:

Quote:

We even considered a hybrid like the Toyota Prius, until we read reports that landfills full of worn out fuel cells will do more damage to the environment, than an equal number of efficient traditional gas powered cars.

The Toyota Prius and all other Hybrids do NOT use fuel cells. They use both a combustion engine which charges a battery (a normal battery!) which feeds an electric engine which takes over whenever it can. Normal Batteries do contain toxins, but it's possible to dispose of the liquid without any harm to the environment, mostly you just reuse it. The plastic casing would obviously end up on a scrapheap, but honestly, when you consider that all the rest of the car is there as well, it's not like it makes any difference.

Fuel Cells use Oxygen an Hydrogen in seperate compartments with a membrane in between to generate electricity. To dispose of a Hydrogen, simply light it. You might remember this one from school:

2H + O -> H2O

(Sorry can't index the two...)
(Also you might not want to light the plastic)
(And be sure to stand back a few metres, when you light Hydrogen it has a slight tendency to ... explode)

Coward

SOUTHERNMERC

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 4:08 PM

Um...slight tendancy, Coward? (Note: that is his proper name, and note my missing eyebrows )

As I have posted elsewhere, no one is denying MM's skill at movie-making. He is extremely proficient, with an excellent head for it. Also, no one is denying that he has an agenda against
Bush. The main gripe is that he takes the facts, and puts them out of order. And many have caught him stretching the truth for the sake of artistry or political principle (many of the reviews of F911 I have read, tho very positive, have stated that very thing). What JasonZZZ and others take offense, if I may say J, is while his intentions may be good, he is using the wrong methods for his purposes. MM might be better served for using unblemished, and by that I mean unchanged and unedited, footage. He uses the truth, but moves it around to suit his needs. And, by doing that, he makes it a deception. By using such tactics, he makes it hard to believe his POV. As I have stated elsewhere, I'll wait til a friend rents this (I have several willing to pony up for this sort of thing, why should I?)

Also, I'll ask it here too. I have heard some ppl call MM "brave" for putting this movie out, how exactly is that? This is completely in character for him, so his reputation isn't at stake, and commando's aren't going to smash in the door to his million-dollar home and give him monster noogies (nor anything worse), so how's this "brave?" I can see bold, just not brave. I'm honestly asking. No sarcasm here, just confusion.

Jayne: "See, Vera? You get dressed up, you get taken someplace fun!"

GTMAN8503

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 4:20 PM

Yes, post 9/11 America is so horrible. We're in a "fever to spread Freedom, destroy Evil, and take revenge for 9/11"...wait a second...spread Freedom, destroy Evil, revenge for 9/11? Pardon my viewpoint, but those all sound like good things to me. But maybe a closer examination will reveal the error of my thinking. Lets look at your points:

1) Spreading Freedom

Since when are free societies bad? I realize that when you allow people to make up their own minds they might do things like, oh, I don't know, elect people you don't agree with to government positions, but the will of the people is respected. Free societies are also much less likely to fall into despotism. Of course, greedy, rich, elitist, lying-types of people, aka "Liberals", think that everyone who disagrees with them is an idiot, and that they should be in charge of all decisions. This, of course, runs counter to the concept of freedom. I contend that it's better to live in a free society than one that isn't, mainly on the basis that I have a say on what goes on, and I'm not constantly afraid of having the door beat in by government agents and being executed for telling the truth. So I think that spreading freedom and liberating other nations from tyranny is by and large a good thing for the people in those countries. It's also a good thing for us, because there are more viewpoints in a free society. Less likely that the population will be seduced by propaganda. I think that spreading freedom is a good thing for all parties, especially, in a case like Iraq, where everyone except the Baathists wanted freedom. Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe all of the Iraqis have been lying to us, and in the next couple of days, they'll turn Iraq back over to Saddam. But I don't think so.

2) Destroying Evil

On the basis of my life experience, I'm gonna jump out on a limb right now and say that evil is bad. I feel pretty confident in that analysis. Now, there's the question of whether evil should be opposed. I contend that since evil is bad, and bad things can't be good, then it's good to go against bad things. Be anti-bad, so to speak. Then there's just the question of defining evil. I would contend that a ruthless madman desperately seeking Weapons of Mass Destruction, who has killed hundreds of thousands innocent civilians, used said Weapons of Mass Destruction against both foreign enemies and domestic dissenters, started wars with neighboring nations, and has a branch of his government specifically devoted to spreading lies about his enemies and the state of the nation to mislead his own people, is probably an evil man. Once again, I could be wrong. Hmmm...misleading the people by spreading lies. Sounds an awful lot like Michael Moore.

3) Taking Revenge for 9/11

This might be considered a bad thing, unless you realize that the people we were taking revenge on were the people that attacked us (Unless you believe the Europeans and Arabs, many of whom still contend that Jews attacked us on 9/11, with the full backing of the Bush Administration) were in fact evil, freedom hating people. While there is evidence linking Saddam to 9/11, it's never been substantiated or confirmed 100 percent. Several things have been confirmed however:

1) Al-Qaeda carried out the 9/11 attack (Unless you're French or Arabic, in which case replace Al-Qaeda with "money-grubbing Jews")

2) Al-Qaeda's primary base of operations was in Afghanistan. The Taliban regime that supported Al-Qaeda was destroyed by Coalition Military Forces, lead by America.

3) There was a working relationship between Al-Qaeda and Iraq (Anyone who denies this is simply an idiot. There are mountains of evidence supporting this claim. Go look it up, I'm not repeating it)

4) Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who was a threat to the Middle East. According to American, British, French, German, Russian, and Chinese intelligence, he possessed and was actively seeking more Weapons of Mass Destruction. It was well known that he had used them in the past during a war wit

SUCCATASH

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 4:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Speak to the issue...

The issue is about a movie you haven't even seen. You are ignorant until you see it. All of your mean and nasty comments make you look stupid.

JASONZZZ

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 5:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Speak to the issue...
The issue is about a movie you haven't even seen. You are ignorant until you see it. All of your mean and nasty comments make you look stupid.

And your comments calling other people Monkeys and dumb, and stupid and not mean, nasty and stupid.

The issue is about MM's dubious and propagandish tactics. There are some things that you absolutely do not need first hand experience (especially when there are plenty enough of base experience - re: all of the other MM films; and lack of evidence and critical review pointing out major differences in tactics and handling) I don't have to smoke crack to know that it's going to wreck havoc on my biochemistry, I don't have to get drunk and kill people to know that it will maim and harm people. Again, get to the point and discuss the issues. Stop sidelining and throw out red-herrings.

Give it a rest with the bullshit come backs and let's talk about how MM's tactics and deception is your new Monkey's master.

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