Japanese Whalers.....

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Unfair, Mike. Only one or two have called for violence against the whalers.

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Eff 'em. Live by

die by...whatever.
Jerks. Good Nazis. Murders.
Take your pick.

Sorry. I grew up watching Flipper.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Chris,

I know you're not laughing in the least at this photo, and thanks for providing me some ammunition about Japanese whaling. The head in this photo is of a whale belonging to the Family Ziphiidae, often called the "beaked whales". They are by far the least known of all whales; they live on the high seas and never come near shore, and a few species are known only from the skeletons of carcasses that have washed up onto beaches (some of them as much as a century ago).

My point here has to do with the "mindset" of the Japanese whalers (I was going to say "philosophy", but that word suggests some degree of thought within the context of marine ecology and I doubt that there is any such thing).

And that "mindset" values the killing of the rarest of the rare - species that we don't know anything about! I've already pointed out that the Japanese kill and sell all kinds of whale, legal or not.

(Note that "Hero" never responded to my post that the Japanese have vastly exceeded their legal rights according to treaties they agreed to and signed. Any comments "Hero"?)

And then there's the issue of the tradition of the sea, of rescuing those in need (even during warfare, once a battle was concluded, the victor assisted in salvaging the vanquished). Instead of helping those involved in a collision in the coldest and most hazardous of oceans, the whaler hosed them down with pressure pumps. The most reprehensible conduct imaginable. Absolutely disgusting. They should be prosecuted under international law.

perfessergee

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
]Violence is never the best solution. And it should be the last option to consider, always.
But then, I would shed no tears for peeps on a whaling ship should they be killed by some wacky extremists. Just like I shed no tears for the cooks aboard the Death Star- they knew what was up, what they were serving aboard.

The laughing Chrisisall

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But dude... don't you live in the east end of the death star?





Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Originally posted by perfessergee:
(Note that "Hero" never responded to my post that the Japanese have vastly exceeded their legal rights according to treaties they agreed to and signed. Any comments "Hero"?)

And then there's the issue of the tradition of the sea, of rescuing those in need (even during warfare, once a battle was concluded, the victor assisted in salvaging the vanquished). Instead of helping those involved in a collision in the coldest and most hazardous of oceans, the whaler hosed them down with pressure pumps. The most reprehensible conduct imaginable. Absolutely disgusting. They should be prosecuted under international law.

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Japanese Whalers are acting legally unless and until they are convicted in Court. If you are not satisfied with the Courts then run people for office, make signs, stand around chanting 'we shall overcome', rally public sntiment, pressure the govt to change the laws, etc. However, the evidence and charges are being brought by the same folks who are engaged in repeated acts of violence against the whalers. Not a lot for the public to support (unless the Jap whaler were to ram an innocent protest vessel).

Its self-serving at best.

The issue here is not the conduct of the whalers, its the conduct of the protestors.

If you watch these videos... http://www.icrwhale.org/gpandsea.htm

...you see Japanese whalers being rammed (twice) by protest boat the Steve Irwin.

You see bottles of toxic acid being fired at the whalers.

You see close approaches and 'crossing the bow' by the Ady Gil (the ship that allowed itself to be run over).

Why the dangerous close approach? You can see them deploying ropes to catch in the Jap's rudders and propellers to disable them and so a laser device could be used against the whaling ship.

All the attacking ships have a skull and crossbones. This is piracy and terrorism and its only a matter of time till they get someone killed.

Edited to add: Bob Barker (he's old, but still kicks ass) rescued the stranded protestors and left the area. The Jap ship remained 'on scene' and recorded the rescue and would have been available to pull them from the sea had it been necessary. As for being hosed down...that's only after hosing them down for a good long time before the collision, if they didn't like getting wet, they should never have approached in the first place, the video shows those pumps have extremely short range. It also does not appear that they were intentionally hosed down after the collision, but rather as the ship was passing in the few seconds immediately following the incident as part of the continuing action. Now if you have video of the ship stopping or coming around for another pass with the cannons, then I'd say you have an issue, but the video speaks for itself.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Edited to add: Bob Barker (he's old, but still kicks ass) rescued the stranded protestors and left the area.

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Note: "Bob Barker" in this case refers to the SHIP, the Bob Barker, not the actual PERSON Bob Barker, who was nowhere near all this kerfluffle.


For the most part, I find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to agree with "Hero" on this one. But I do take issue with his claim that someone is acting legally unless and until they're convicted in court. That's a lie. They're acting ILLEGALLY; they just haven't been convicted and punished - YET.

You wouldn't argue that a serial killer isn't a criminal, would you? Or that Bill Ayers ISN'T a terrorist, right? I mean, I thought you were one of the ones who claimed he IS (and WAS) a terrorist, just one who could never be convicted. If that's so, then by your standards listed above, he wasn't doing anything illegal; if he were, he'd have been convicted, and if he wasn't convicted, there was no crime.

You seem to be falling into the notion that if there's no punishment, there's no crime. I don't buy it. A drug dealer who doesn't get caught is still breaking the law.


Now, as to what the Sea Shepherds can do about it... I suppose they can try to sue the Japanese whalers, and whoever sent the Shonen Maru out on this run, in civil court. They'd likely find a sympathetic jury (even though the jury is SUPPOSED to be impartial) to listen to their case, and I'm sure they could dig up all sorts of nastiness in discovery to embarrass the whaling industry, and they might win significant damages. But a lot of what they have on record might ALSO come out in discovery, so that can be a double-edged sword...

Of course, that all presumes that an international court would hear the case, and that the rules of evidence at least somewhat follow those in the U.S. court system, which is not a foregone conclusion.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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