Japanese Whalers.....

POSTED BY: Calhoun
UPDATED: Friday, June 12, 2026 18:00
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CHRISISALL

Thursday, January 7, 2010 9:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Providing whales for research is a business. They had a permit.

Hitler did a lot of 'legal' stuff too.
Until someone decided to tell him it wasn't, and interfere with his efforts using violence.

It's all a fucking game.

The not-so-laughing Chrisisall

RUE

Thursday, January 7, 2010 10:02 PM

"They had a permit."

Here, btw, is the langauge: "... special permit authorizing that national to kill, take and treat whales for purposes of scientific research ..."

And what, pray tell, was the purpose of the 'study' ?

"Each Contracting Government shall (not may or should, but SHALL which is the same as MUST) transmit to such body as may be designated by the Commission, in so far as practicable, and at intervals of not more than one year, scientific information available to that Government with respect to whales and whaling, including the results of research conducted pursuant to paragraph 1 of this Article and to Article IV."

And how have they met the requirement to provide these results ?

This is 'research' of the same type as Mengele's - a fraud.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, January 7, 2010 10:09 PM

I agree with perfessergee wrote: What I can oppose is grossly unsustainable harvest,

While personally I do think we have and should grow beyond whale hunting... that cannot be the only consideration. As with Chris pic, hunting a species to extinction is illogical.

CHRISISALL wrote I disagree. I think it's all degrees. Killing a fly & a cow are on vastly different levels.
Killing a shark is different than killing a sea lion.
we are all animals, and that the more evolved ones should be as off limits

I have raised cattle, shot deer etc... never slaughtered one of my cows because well... I couldn't. Selling them off was hard enough, but I do eat red meat... Cows are fairly intelligent you find if you spend alot of time around them.

I do disagree with the Sea Shepard's on seal hunting though...

two things there, man has practically eliminated many of the seals natural predators in these areas and two, commercial fish stocks are very low due to our history of overfishing ( which also caused problem 1 )

Until we manage to correct the two problems, I think we need to be the predator that checks the seal population, if not fish stocks have zero chance of bouncing back, and many if not all the seals will starve anyway...

A bad situation where we need to correct other problems before we can change the situation the shepherds are against. But it will take years to accomplish...

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, January 7, 2010 10:22 PM

Another point...

At least the Japanese are eating / using what they kill

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2009/0402/p09s02-coop.html

Smarten up naval sonar to save the whales

Obama can silence harmful echoes from the Bush administration.

Santa Barbara, Calif; and Los Angeles

The Bush administration may be gone, but whales and other marine life along our coasts will be hearing from it for years to come – literally.

On its way out of town, Bush's National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the US Navy released a series of regulations that, during the next five years, could cause environmental harm on a staggering scale. But by acting decisively, the Obama administration can prevent it.

The regulations allow approximately 11.7 million instances of harassment, injury, or even death (the legal term is "take") to marine mammals by exposing them to high-intensity military sonar training in coastal waters around the United States. These estimates – the Navy's own – include 9.7 million takes along the Atlantic Coast and the Gulf of Mexico; 630,000 off the coast of southern California; 650,000 along the coast of Washington and Oregon; 140,000 in Hawaii; and another 500,000 off the coast of Florida.

Sonar exposure is not, as the Navy suggests, a mere matter of annoyance to whales and dolphins. In fact, the harm ranges from significant disturbance to important behaviors – feeding, breeding, migrating, communicating, finding mates – to hearing damage and even mass stranding and death.

continues

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, January 7, 2010 10:28 PM

Who escalated the confrontation ?

Both sides here have acted violently

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2010/0106/Whale-Wars-How-wa
s-the-Sea-Shepherd-s-new-ship-sunk

I think it really shows the need for the international community to act, before this gets further out of hand

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

CALHOUN

Thursday, January 7, 2010 10:45 PM

I say escalate the confrontation further!

and pick a side...

CHRISISALL

Thursday, January 7, 2010 10:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

I think we need to be the predator that checks the seal population, if not fish stocks have zero chance of bouncing back, and many if not all the seals will starve anyway...

Allow me a free-association moment, Gino...

I think we need to be the police that checks the terrorist population, if not Democracy have zero chance of bouncing back, and many if not all the states will hate us anyway...

Don't know how relevant that is, just popped to mind is all.

The laughing Chrisisall

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, January 7, 2010 11:07 PM

With who?

" Japan with about 800 in 2004, but actively working to remove restrictions. "

" or the US Navy with 11.7 million instances of harassment, injury, or even death "

The best approach, if possible ( Calhoun your from Australia right? ) is to lean on your government to act...

In a protection zone like I proposed whaling ships could be seized and fines levyed

or Australia could deny them travel through their waters, access to their ports... hell extend that to all Japanese flagged vessels if needed

If these confrontations turn into shooting matches ( and the way this is going ) are the Sea Shepard's realistically going to strap on the Japanese Navy?

Better if local govs came together, agreed on some laws, and then enforced them... Either by having law enforcement confront the whalers, or making the cost for Japan to allow the whaling too expensive.

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, January 7, 2010 11:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

I think we need to be the predator that checks the seal population, if not fish stocks have zero chance of bouncing back, and many if not all the seals will starve anyway...

Allow me a free-association moment, Gino...

I think we need to be the police that checks the terrorist population, if not Democracy have zero chance of bouncing back, and many if not all the states will hate us anyway...

Don't know how relevant that is, just popped to mind is all.

The laughing Chrisisall

Ah yes, but that proposition assumes that democracy is what you are promoting ( a false assumption ) and if you allowed said states a free choice maybe they wouldn't hate you? ( for that reason anyway )

Seriously though, I do think we need to return balance to a system WE screwed up in the first place... but it took us 50-75 years to screw that system up... If left alone maybe it takes 500 years to self correct. Does it not make sense to try and limit the damage while helping that correction come back faster ? Or would letting that collapse occur in order to give the problem more momentum a better choice?

I'm not a biology guy, just going from some reading is all

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

NIKI2

Thursday, January 7, 2010 11:18 PM

Interestingly, I don't expect to much unbiased coverage from the Christian Science Monitor, and didn't get it. What DID surprise me were the comments on the article:

Quote:
The ramming of the Ady Gil (Earth Race) was quite different from the tactics of Sea Shepherd. Sea Shepherd while controversial and aggressive has not attempted to sink occupied vessels. A few feet difference in the ramming and six people would be dead. The Japanese attacked without regards to human life, it is a miracle that no one died. The attempted murder of six people is a far far bigger crime than anything Sea Shepherd has ever been accused of.

Whales are creatures with brains larger than our own. Anatomical studies on whales who died of natural causes show brain structures thought to be unique to humans and our closest relatives. Whales don't just have huge brains, they have anatomical features which are closely associated with high intelligence and awareness.

These are not creatures to "sustainably harvest" they are our cousins, the first intelligent life we find in the universe and Japan turns them into dog food. I don't care what supposed Japanese tradition is involved, we don't condone head hunting despite its long tradition, nor should we accept the brutal murder of other intelligent life forms.

Quote:
While some may disagree with the tactics employed by the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, we should all support their noble goal of protecting the whales from brutal and illegal hunting - especially in sanctuary waters. Likewise, we should all implore the whale hunters to stop and consider the grave consequences of their actions.

Quote:
Paul Watson may be controversial but at least he's trying to do something to prevent the descruction of the existence of whales. Some of the rare species these boats hunt are on the absolute verge of extinction. Sanctions should be imposed against Japan, we all know that their 'scientific research' is a load of rubbish and the rest of the world needs to say we won't stand for it.

Quote:
This is a very one-sided and opinionated piece. I question Greenpeace - what results have they attained in the Southern Oceans? A few hundred photos of whales being killed to be used as propaganda in order to raise donations does NOT count as "results". SSCS and Paul Watson may not be perfect and Watson has certainly published materials in the past that makes people question his intent - but he IS actively doing something to stop whaling, and "anything" is more than anyone else, including Greenpeace has done in the past. The Japanese are in this for the money. Greenpeace's "all talk and no walk" won't get them off the bargaining table. Watson is right about one thing - if whaling is to be stopped, the whalers have to be economically damaged to the point that it is no longer profitable.

Quote:
I for one am proud of the people associated with the Sea Shepards. At last they dont sit on their computer at home and say oh wow someone should do something to stop the whalers. At least the put their private lives on hold and try.

I left out some of the "God" parts of a couple of the quotes.

Actually, Greenpeace DID harass the whalers long ago, that was going on when I was involved. They gave up fairly soon, however, and SSCS took over.

Whaling caused us to believe the wonderful blue whales off the California coast were extinct. You can only imagine the thrill when one was spotted, and now the population is increasing. I do abhor whaling, along with some other things, despite the fact that I occasionally eat red meat. Here I find a vast difference between mankind breeding things for consumption and taking things out of the wild which are part of the ecosystem. Neither is right, admittedly. We’ve ruined so much by taking predators out of the environment that, yes, now we have to “cull” prey species, which is bad enough, but faking killing for “research” is unconscionable to me.

I also disagree that killing a shark is different fro