Pirates Attack Wrong Ship!
POSTED BY: Kwicko
UPDATED: Sunday, October 11, 2009 08:22
VIEWED: 4562
PAGE 4 of 5
Hello,
It seems obvious to me that there is more than one group of pirates at work. Some have the organization, equipment, and sophistication needed to take big ships 450 miles offshore. Others are people who say, "Hey, I've got a boat..."
This matches the history of old-world pirates, whose equipment, sophistication, and training varied widely.
I notice from the map that a lot of attacks are happening as ships are passing through that channel of water to the north, which makes sense. It's a good bottleneck to take advantage of.
For my own part, I have a difficult time viewing these pirates as rebels with a cause. Unless that cause is 'robbing everyone within reach.' The Somalis are absolutely poor, desperate people, but that situation can't be fixed by preying on ships at sea. Piracy is, as has been said before, the easy way out.
The enemies they need to deal with are within the borders of their own nation. If the citizens are not prepared to deal with those enemies, they need to take their boats and flee to another country.
To be blunt about it: If you don't have one bullet for your own tyrants, and you don't have the balls to sail your boat to fairer waters, you best not use your bullets and boats against me. I have no pity for that bullshit.
--Abthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Sockpuppet:
These are without a doubt the worst pirates I've ever heard of.
But you *have* heard of them.
Quote:
AnthonyT:
I have a difficult time viewing these pirates as rebels with a cause.
Tony,
Nah, I gotta agree with Frem, the only difference between pirates and govt. is recognition. But we've been through this one before. I agree that there's a wide variety of pirates, but many have been making demands for a while re: fishing and dumping.
Desperate reckless ne'erdowell bad boys who have at least a nominal nobel cause and go on very dangerous missions, and oh, have boats? They must get a lot of tail.
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"I'd buy the poor fisherman angle a whole lot more if it were fishing boats (or ships dumping waste) that were being attacked. but it's not. It's commercial transport vessels and passenger ships."
By that logic the high pecentage of people in the US who can't get work should be attacking store owners, factory managers and the like, rather than making and dealing drugs. But that doesn't happen.
I suspect it's because one is far more lucrative than the other.
It does give rise to an idea though: the COST of keeping people vested in the system is reliable employment for all that pays something above starvation wages. The COST of getting them back in the system, given that the alternative can be far more rewarding, is much, much higher. And the COST of dealing with the alternative economy in terms of crime and punishment is also very high.
It makes one wonder (well, it make ME wonder) WHY a sane society would NOT want to prevent large-scale alienation in the first place - with the comparatively simple and cheap preventative of full employment with decent jobs.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'd put my money on the pirates. Blackwater hasn't exactly done a stellar job, even when facing an enemy armed with such high-tech weapons as rocks and homemade pipe bombs. Put 'em up against a foe that was born and raised on the sea, and you'll have lots of nice pictures of "American contractors" stripped naked, burned, and hung from their own mast.
You say this like it's a bad thing ?
Umm, Blackwaters operational security is good, but it ain't THAT good, and they seem to be right eagerly awaiting the "day of the rope" when they get to hang all us Librrulls, Muslims, Pagans, Gays, Ay-rabs and other 'traitors to humanity' - along with a very strong impression they'll be getting that opportunity pretty soon now, and confident enough about it to concern me.
Besides, we all know the bastards love shooting up people darker than them, so why not keep them occupied somewhere the hell OTHER THAN HERE, yes ?
I don't have a lotta sympathy for friggin pirates, mind you - just that a lot of this is kinda hypocritical and two faced when we'll drop the hammer on the pirates, and look the other way for the dumpers.
This is one of the few cases where I think neighboring nations oughta use this opportunity to expand their borders - they already have to have heavier security due to this mess, so why not push it out there a couple hundred yards at a time, absorb the population willing to become citizens of the absorbing nation, and give them a safe harbor on the new land to rebuild their homes and lives - be rough, but what the hell else to do about it, invade ?
Just a thought on the matter.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Originally posted by rue:
It makes one wonder (well, it make ME wonder) WHY a sane society would NOT want to prevent large-scale alienation in the first place - with the comparatively simple and cheap preventative of full employment with decent jobs.
I don't wonder at all, most of our current 'societies' - specifically including ours, are NOT sane, and are based on sociopathic principles learned as a survival and advancement trait, which become amplified as passed on to future generations, and up till recently, we even had something REAL damn close to ethnic cleansing (the hellcamps) for kids which tried to hold to their humanity despite our efforts to crush it out.
We don't HAVE sane societies - and correcting that is the primary goal of folks like me and HKCav.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'd put my money on the pirates. Blackwater hasn't exactly done a stellar job, even when facing an enemy armed with such high-tech weapons as rocks and homemade pipe bombs. Put 'em up against a foe that was born and raised on the sea, and you'll have lots of nice pictures of "American contractors" stripped naked, burned, and hung from their own mast.
You say this like it's a bad thing ?
You must've read it wrong, then.
No, I think Blackwater is just about frakking useless, and would prove themselves so almost instantaneously if they attempted to go to sea. I've no love for them at all.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"I'd buy the poor fisherman angle a whole lot more if it were fishing boats (or ships dumping waste) that were being attacked. but it's not. It's commercial transport vessels and passenger ships."
I suspect it's because one is far more lucrative than the other.
It does give rise to an idea though: the COST of keeping people vested in the system is reliable employment for all that pays something above starvation wages. The COST of getting them back in the system, given that the alternative can be far more rewarding, is much, much higher. And the COST of dealing with the alternative economy in terms of crime and punishment is also very high.
It makes one wonder (well, it make ME wonder) WHY a sane society would NOT want to prevent large-scale alienation in the first place - with the comparatively simple and cheap preventative of full employment with decent jobs.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
It may well be that the cost of full employment with decent jobs is higher than the cost of dealing with the criminal element. Most likely because, as you said, the criminal economy is far more lucrative. 10 grand a week slinging rocks or 2 grand a month digging ditches? Enough people would continue to choose the criminal route that the costs of arrest/prosecution/incarceration/rehab/reintegration would not go away.
I'd be willing to bet that piracy would continue unabated in Somalia, even if the dumping ceased and the fish population returned overnight.
Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.
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Evil cause they're evil ?
Nah, I don't buy that argument, never have.
People prefer to do "honest" work for their money cause it gives them a sense of accomplishment, makes them feel like they're contributing something to the world, and feel good about themselves.
Also, for the same reason folks don't panhandle for a couple extra bucks on their lunch break - the whole self respect issue.
But when you cut off those opportunities and give em someone to maybe blame, even if that blame is inappropriate or misguided....
Remember, I deal with youths who have often enough truly been shafted by our own society and most of the time are initially quite rabid about the matter, and bent on some seriously counterproductive and misguided retaliation about it before shown a better way.
Many national policies are in essence, the flow of many personal policies, as such a psychosis like that, without any real check against it, can become national in a very short period of time, indeed it can, history shows many examples.
The Somalis feel shafted by the international community and they're quite pissed about it, they even have at least some bit of cause, HOWEVER - yes, they're acting in a counterproductive and self destructive fashion.
I've offered the only clever idea *I* could think of already though, and am open to any better ones.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'd put my money on the pirates. Blackwater hasn't exactly done a stellar job, even when facing an enemy armed with such high-tech weapons as rocks and homemade pipe bombs. Put 'em up against a foe that was born and raised on the sea, and you'll have lots of nice pictures of "American contractors" stripped naked, burned, and hung from their own mast.
You say this like it's a bad thing ?
You must've read it wrong, then.
No, I think Blackwater is just about frakking useless, and would prove themselves so almost instantaneously if they attempted to go to sea. I've no love for them at all.
Hello,
While I find Blackwater/Xe to be *morally* useless, I think you might discover to your dismay that they are much better trained and equipped than your average pirate.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'd put my money on the pirates. Blackwater hasn't exactly done a stellar job, even when facing an enemy armed with such high-tech weapons as rocks and homemade pipe bombs. Put 'em up against a foe that was born and raised on the sea, and you'll have lots of nice pictures of "American contractors" stripped naked, burned, and hung from their own mast.
You say this like it's a bad thing ?
You must've read it wrong, then.
No, I think Blackwater is just about frakking useless, and would prove themselves so almost instantaneously if they attempted to go to sea. I've no love for them at all.
Hello,
While I find Blackwater/Xe to be *morally* useless, I think you might discover to your dismay that they are much better trained and equipped than your average pirate.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
Yes but that is the beauty of the idea
in typical American fashion we solve both problems
send Blackwater over there in force,
then we start shipping heavy weapons and advisors to the pirates...
Perhaps we could even somehow tax the shipping traffic in the area to pay for it all
" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "
" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson
Lets party like its 1939
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