Out2Lunch Backs Down, Admits the 'Birfers' are Complete Nutjobs!

POSTED BY: Hero
UPDATED: Saturday, August 8, 2009 04:45
VIEWED: 13632
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HERO

Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:33 PM

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104009

Normally I leave the 'Obama Not Natural Born' stuff to PN and the crazytalkers.

This is an interesting story. Dude was ordered to deploy, he filed civil suit seeking injunction saying "order is illegal". Suit means discovery or court martial means discovery, both of which would force the President to produce the one document which ends this debate.

I fully expected the military to go after this guy arguing the same arguments used successfully in past suits to preclude the discovery process from going foreward. The nature of this case made that more difficult.

Likely injuction is dismissed, then he refuses to deploy. If he refuses to deploy then they would seek to punish him...he then has the right to a court martial, which gives him a right to discovery as part of his defense, suddenly the usual "we don't have to respond" argument does not work.

So they cancel his orders. Normally I find this whole business silly. Legally speaking I find it signifigant that they chose the ONE option that prevents discovery in this case. I am now of the opinion that the question needs to be settled, so it is my hope that soldiers will continue to challenge the President in such numbers until he produces the document.

Thats they whole point. One document, simple solution, and we can all point and laugh at the crazytalkers.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

AGENTROUKA

Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:44 PM

You don't really make it sound credible that you find the whole thing silly.

What I find interesting is... if he really faked his citizenship, someone important enough would actually know by now and have helped him cover it up. Wouldn't those same people be capable of credibly faking a birth certificate? Do people really think the entire stability of his presidency rests on the shaky hope that no one can prove he's not a U.S. citizen? That if someone just insists hard enough, he'll throw up his hands and go "Alright, you caught me"? How much stupidity, along with the perfidity, do people assume is going on here?

HERO

Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
You don't really make it sound credible that you find the whole thing silly.

Sorry, I'm a lawyer, I like the legal issues raised. I am of the opinion that all the challenges to Barrack's citizenship were silly, pointless, stupid, etc.

This one raised a novel legal issue and actually gave the guy some standing to get into court, either through his injunction or, more likely, through his court martial.

As a lawyer I found that interesting and looked foreward to Barrack finally having to show the document. Their casual surrender of the issue raises more legitimate questions that need answered.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

AGENTROUKA

Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
You don't really make it sound credible that you find the whole thing silly.

Sorry, I'm a lawyer, I like the legal issues raised. I am of the opinion that all the challenges to Barrack's citizenship were silly, pointless, stupid, etc.

This one raised a novel legal issue and actually gave the guy some standing to get into court, either through his injunction or, more likely, through his court martial.

As a lawyer I found that interesting and looked foreward to Barrack finally having to show the document. Their casual surrender of the issue raises more legitimate questions that need answered.

H

I guess you phrased some sentences in ways that made me think otherwise. Thank you for clarifying.

KWICKO

Thursday, July 16, 2009 6:42 PM

Hmmm...

As I heard it, this guy volunteered for duty in Afghanistan, THEN decided he didn't want to go, which the military says is his option being as he volunteered for that duty in the first place, so they scrubbed his orders, THEN he filed suit. So they tossed him out of the military, and since he was working on the side for a commercial military contractor, he lost that job, too, since the policy is that if you sue the military, you're not allowed on military property, which is where his side job was taking place.

So now he's out TWO jobs, and has gotten nothing for his troubles.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So now he's out TWO jobs, and has gotten nothing for his troubles.

I guess he should have honored his commitment in the first place.

OUT2THEBLACK

Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
You don't really make it sound credible that you find the whole thing silly.

Sorry, I'm a lawyer, I like the legal issues raised. I am of the opinion that all the challenges to Barrack's citizenship were silly, pointless, stupid, etc.

This one raised a novel legal issue and actually gave the guy some standing to get into court, either through his injunction or, more likely, through his court martial.

As a lawyer I found that interesting and looked foreward to Barrack finally having to show the document.

By his own admission , the pRESIDENT-Select , Barry Hussein Obama Soetoro was the son of a British Empire Kenyan National at the time of his birth...

And , under US law at the time , his mother was too young to confer upon him US Citizenship , so the fact of his having been born outside the United States , at Coast General Hospital in Mombasa has been deliberately obscured...

If you are a barrister worth a spit , your interest should also be cultivated by the Obama campaign having spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to sweep the issue away , rather than simply produce a long-form vault copy of a Hawaiian birth certificate...

AGENTROUKA

Friday, July 17, 2009 5:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:

And , under US law at the time , his mother was too young to confer upon him US Citizenship , so the fact of his having been born outside the United States , at Coast General Hospital in Mombasa has been deliberately obscured...

Which makes you so certain that it is a fact... why?

PIRATENEWS

Friday, July 17, 2009 6:38 AM

Yes, very sneaky way to dodge discovery of that missing birth certificate.

This same tactic can now be used by every civilian accused of a fed crime, to win dismissal of the prosecution, since every "law" signed by Obama is null and void, and every fed cop is now not a cop, and every fed prosecutor is not a prosecutor. Will any criminal defense attorney have the guts or brains to use that winning defense in a drug trial? Pro se's are not allowed to prosecute in fed courts, and US prosecutors are now merely pro se lawyers.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104009

Normally I leave the 'Obama Not Natural Born' stuff to PN and the crazytalkers.

This is an interesting story. Dude was ordered to deploy, he filed civil suit seeking injunction saying "order is illegal". Suit means discovery or court martial means discovery, both of which would force the President to produce the one document which ends this debate.

I fully expected the military to go after this guy arguing the same arguments used successfully in past suits to preclude the discovery process from going foreward. The nature of this case made that more difficult.

Likely injuction is dismissed, then he refuses to deploy. If he refuses to deploy then they would seek to punish him...he then has the right to a court martial, which gives him a right to discovery as part of his defense, suddenly the usual "we don't have to respond" argument does not work.

So they cancel his orders. Normally I find this whole business silly. Legally speaking I find it signifigant that they chose the ONE option that prevents discovery in this case. I am now of the opinion that the question needs to be settled, so it is my hope that soldiers will continue to challenge the President in such numbers until he produces the document.

Thats they whole point. One document, simple solution, and we can all point and laugh at the crazytalkers.

Hero smells a rat.

But he can't make the next step and realize the entire "govt" is a giant organized crime racket. CAFRs, "Federal" Reserve Bank Corp, Cocaine In America, Operation Northwoods, $14-trillion Bankster Bailout Bill, Cap & Trade Bankster Fart Tax, Kosher Pedophile Protection Hate Crimes Censorship Act, bills passed without legislators allowed to read them or not even allowed to vote on them, etc.

When a criminal commits a crime, that's not a surprise, it's what criminals do. They can't help themselves. It's a compulsion. Don't matter if they wear hoodies and tennies or suits and ties.

After all, GW Bush was a convicted drunk driver and convicted cokehead and convicted of AWOL and convicted of desertion in Nam War and stole 2 elections and accused rapist and a sodomite (felony in military). That's the kind of career criminal NWO loves to destroy USA.

Hussein Obama born in Africa is an excellent way for the NWO to trigger civil war and martial law, to destroy USA. Just like they did in 1860, with the fed govt massacring 1-million US citizens and making white men slaves for a military draft. Lincoln was a Kosher Rothschild bankster BTW, just like his cousin Hitler.

Quote:
"Did you know that Cherie Booth, England's Prime Minister, Tony Blair's wife is the great-great-great granddaughter of John Wilkes Booth, the man who allegedly assassinated Abraham Lincoln?"
www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/governmentconindex.htm

Booth got away and lived happily ever after, while a dozen other folks got hanged in the conspiracy. Winners write the history books, not dead people.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, July 17, 2009 1:21 PM

While I, frankly - couldn't care less...

One thought does occur watching this convo from a neutral perspective.

Paying Danegeld results in paying Danegeld.

It sets a damn bad precedent to go caving to folks demands when many of them (not all, but many) have political motives that have jack shit to do with the issue, and quite honestly would not accept *ANY* evidence, no matter how valid, that contradicted the little faery tales they're using to float their agenda...

You know, kinda like that whole WMD issue, yes ?

Fuck em, truth of the signal, everything goes somewhere and the internet goes everywhere - folks really WANTED evidence one way or another, they'd have found it by now.

No, what this is, is folks with an agenda floating this shit as an excuse, and yanno, in order for that to work on someone like me, I would have to give a shit one way or the other, and well...

I don't.

Even if it WERE true, he would be neither first technically "ineligable" president we had, (that'd be Taft, if I remember correctly) and I kinda doubt he'll be the last, neither.

Protip: When someone is makin a hoopla out in front of your house, look over your back fence FIRST - this concept, applied to public politics and government, is always a wise idea.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

KWICKO

Friday, July 17, 2009 2:47 PM

Right you are, Frem. PN and the other "birthers" want Obama to personally go door to door, showing THE ORIGINAL birth certificate to anyone and everyone who asks to see it. I'd propose that we ALL have to do this. Hell, we can call the birth certificate a "national ID" and make everyone carry theirs with them at all times, to be shown to anyone who asks. And you don't get to go anywhere without it, and if you don't show it, you don't get to travel, work, shop, gather, move about, own a home, rent a place, buy a car, or do anything else.

Sound like a good plan, PN? Or isn't this the kind of thing you've been railing against for years?

I haven't seen Palin's birth certificate, nor Ron Paul's. Not even a "photo-chopped" copy of them on the internet. I haven't seen Cynthia McKinney's birth certificate, either. Guess they're all out of luck when it comes to running for office, eh?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

PIRATENEWS

Friday, July 17, 2009 2:58 PM

Nobody from out of state is allowed to get a driver license (internal passport) without a birth certifcate, per the Real ID Act and now the Pass Act. Unless you're one of 50-million illegal aliens like Hussein Obama. But you can run for president without a birth certificate, and all courts agree that no citizen has the right to stop an illegal alien being president.

I'll try to use that defense in my 2-year-old fed traffic ticket appeal... Looks like a slam dunk, on top of my slam dunk.

Quote:
"Obama is a radical Communist. He's going to destroy this country, and we're either going to stop him, or the United States of America is going to cease to exist."
-Ambassador Alan Keyes PhD, candidate for president in 2008
www.archive.org/details/ObamaInauguralMashup/
http://loyaltoliberty.blogspot.com
http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1
http://larrysinclair-0926.blogspot.com

RUE

Friday, July 17, 2009 3:21 PM

I really truly think that issue with the birth certificate is the key to the whole Obama affair. You keep at it PN and Hero and OTB et al. Make it your life's work. It'll be worth it. I swear.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

OUT2THEBLACK

Friday, July 17, 2009 3:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:

What I find interesting is... if he really faked his citizenship, someone important enough would actually know by now and have helped him cover it up. Wouldn't those same people be capable of credibly faking a birth certificate? Do people really think the entire stability of his presidency rests on the shaky hope that no one can prove he's not a U.S. citizen? That if someone just insists hard enough, he'll throw up his hands and go "Alright, you caught me"? How much stupidity, along with the perfidity, do people assume is going on here?

What you should also find interesting is that ScamBO was traveling in Pakistan at a time when US Citizens were barred from going there...

On WHAT passport was he doing that ? His Indonesian one , perchance ?

Don't worry , there's perfidy and coverup for all , and sadly , the majority of US Citizens are unaware or uncaring about it...

If there is really NOTHING to all of this , why won't ScamBO stand and deliver documents that prove his US birth ?

It would be SO EASY , right ? Put this issue to rest , once and for all...

'"Barack Hussein Obama, in order to prove his constitutional eligibility to serve as president, basically needs only produce a single unique historical document for the Plaintiff’s inspection and authentication: namely, the 'long-form' birth certificate which will confirm whether Barack Hussein Obama was in fact born to parents who were both citizens of the United States in Honolulu, Hawaii, in or about 1961," explains the complaint.

Taitz said she will attend the hearing to amend the temporary restraining order to an injunction because more members of the military have joined the cause.

"We are going to be asking for release of Obama's records because now this completely undermines the military. It revoked this order, but it can come up with another order tomorrow. It can come up with orders for other people," she said. "Am I going to be flying around the country 1,000 times and paying the fees every time they issue an order?"

Taitz said the issue "must be resolved immediately," and she will continue working to ensure Obama proves he is eligible for office.

"We're going to be asking the judge to issue an order for Obama to provide his vital records to show he is legitimately president," she said. "We're going to say, we have orders every day, and we'll have revocations every day. This issue has to be decided."

She said there cannot be any harm to the president if he is legitimately holding office.'

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104009

RUE

Friday, July 17, 2009 3:50 PM

You go, girl ! Obviously there is a deep, deep cover-up which will take all your time and resources to unearth. THIS is your life's mission ! I can feel it ! Let us know all the facts you can uncover, ok ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

GINOBIFFARONI

Friday, July 17, 2009 4:09 PM

Not like this is all that original

http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/canada/president.asp

" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

STORYMARK

Friday, July 17, 2009 4:09 PM

Hey, in case you idiot Birthers hadn't heard, this chumps been exposed as a fraud.

Shocker.

How long until you lap up the next bullshit story to feed your paranoia? I'm sure not soon enough for you. If you are still going on about this birther BS, you are quite simply retarded. Laughable. A joke. Go away, you're lowering the collective IQ.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

SIGNYM

Friday, July 17, 2009 4:20 PM

I'm with Rue on this one. I think the birthers SHOULD make this their life's work. Go to Hawaii personally, check out the system, go to Kenya... dig, dig, dig for all they're worth. Keep at it and don't stop.

KWICKO

Friday, July 17, 2009 5:25 PM

Quote:

What you should also find interesting is that ScamBO was traveling in Pakistan at a time when US Citizens were barred from going there...

You ever been to Cuba? Know anyone who has?

Are they still an American citizen? Americans are forbidden by the State Department from traveling to Cuba, and to do so on an America passport raises all kinds of hell when you try to get back into the U.S. There's an industry in making this easy, though - you go to Mexico or another country that has relations with Cuba, and you get a passport from that country, then head for Cuba. When you come back to the U.S., you use your U.S. passport to get back into this country, and it doesn't have the taboo Cuban entrance stamp on it.

It's similar for getting in and out of ANY country the U.S. doesn't have relations with. You ARE aware that there are American citizens in Iran and Iraq, yes? Afghanistan, too. It's not EASY to get to those places, but it is indeed possible, and done more often than you might think. Doing so doesn't automatically revoke your United States citizenship, so far as I'm aware.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

KWICKO

Friday, July 17, 2009 5:27 PM

Quote:
...which will confirm whether Barack Hussein Obama was in fact born to parents who were both citizens of the United States in Honolulu, Hawaii, in or about 1961," explains the complaint.

Shouldn't that be enough to throw the case out right there? I'm unaware of any Constitutional requirement that you must be born "to parents who were both citizens of the United States" to qualify for U.S. citizenship.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

HERO

Friday, July 17, 2009 5:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Right you are, Frem. PN and the other "birthers" want Obama to personally go door to door, showing THE ORIGINAL birth certificate to anyone and everyone who asks to see it. I'd propose that we ALL have to do this. Hell, we can call the birth certificate a "national ID" and make everyone carry theirs with them at all times, to be shown to anyone who asks. And you don't get to go anywhere without it, and if you don't show it, you don't get to travel, work, shop, gather, move about, own a home, rent a place, buy a car, or do anything else.

That's extreme, but the solution to this problem is not.

There's no reason we can't require that a person submit a certified copy of the certificate along with their applications before being placed on the ballot.

It would serve the duel purpose of meeting the Constitutional burdon of both birth AND age.

So if you live in a state that allows you to put things on the ballot...like California...get a petition to change your state's election laws to require a certified birth certificate. You've got a little less then three years to get it done. If in four years Obama does not appear on the ballot...there's your answer.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

KWICKO

Friday, July 17, 2009 7:12 PM

Couldn't Obama just show his driver's license or ID? Even PN says that you have to show your birth certificate to get one of those! So wouldn't HAVING one of those be proof enough?

I do like the idea of having to present such documents when you declare yourself for public office, though.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

HERO

Friday, July 17, 2009 7:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Couldn't Obama just show his driver's license or ID?

No. Why? Because you do not have to be a natural born citizen to get a license. For example, the Governor of California is a citizen, has a license, but is Constitutionally barred from the Presidency.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

KWICKO

Friday, July 17, 2009 8:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Couldn't Obama just show his driver's license or ID?

No. Why? Because you do not have to be a natural born citizen to get a license. For example, the Governor of California is a citizen, has a license, but is Constitutionally barred from the Presidency.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

Sorry, Hero - I was being facetious. I thought it showed.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

RUE

Friday, July 17, 2009 8:19 PM

"It would serve the duel purpose of meeting the Constitutional burdon of both birth AND age."

Duel ? When - at dawn ? Pistols ? Swords ? Other ?

Burdon - is that like bourbon ? And why does the Constitution care about bourbon ? Does it also mention whiskey ? I like whiskey, though bourbon - not so much. But I like single malt scotch better. Is scotch unconstitutional, being foreign and all ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

BYTEMITE

Friday, July 17, 2009 8:26 PM

I hear some folks are working on the Governator issue, actually.

I'm sure natural born citizenry isn't going to be a limitation for long.

And besides... How, exactly, does this affect policy, if Obama weren't eligible? That's what I care about.

If he were removed, Biden would be President. Policy doesn't change, but someone less likeable and less capable is put on the world stage. Do any of you really think he would be removed? He wouldn't be in office if the powers that be didn't WANT him there.

My basic question is, do you all think that Obama not being a citizen makes him untrustworthy to hold office? Hell, I think being a politician makes him that, but what is your specific objection? Do you think that Obama's non-citizenry is driving him to help Muslim nations at the detriment of the US (or if you're PN, to help Isreal)?

If you don't think Obama has a secret agenda beyond the usual psychopathic corporate globalists, then this is all just pointless tecnicality, and why SHOULD we care?

HERO

Friday, July 17, 2009 8:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Burdon - is that like bourbon ? And why does the Constitution care about bourbon ? Does it also mention whiskey ? I like whiskey, though bourbon - not so much. But I like single malt scotch better. Is scotch unconstitutional, being foreign and all ?

I think my meaning was clear... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdon

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

HERO

Friday, July 17, 2009 9:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
And besides... How, exactly, does this affect policy, if Obama weren't eligible? That's what I care about.

If he were removed, Biden would be President. Policy doesn't change, but someone less likeable and less capable is put on the world stage. Do any of you really think he would be removed? He wouldn't be in office if the powers that be didn't WANT him there.

This is a good point.

How a bill becomes a law: A bill is introduced in Congress (spending bills must come from the House). The House and Senate both pass a version of it...then they negotiate a final bill...then they pass it again. At that point the President signs it or vetos it. If he signs it, the bill becomes a law. "I'm just a bill, yes I'm only a bill..."

If Obama is determined to be Constitutionally barred from office then everything he's done as President is invalid. It would be unprecedented, but there is precedent for technical problems in the process. The end result is every law he signed no longer exists, every law, every dollar, every order...all undone.

Biden becomes President...most likely. Most orders can be adopted by Biden and that damage mitigated. The laws, however, would be completely undone and would be need to be redone by Congress (there are technicalities regarding the time in which the President has to sign or veto a bill).

One could argue that Biden cannot become President and it would, by default, fall to John McCain (Biden would still be Vice President). WHAT!? This is not a case of "incapacity, death, resignation, or removal from office" since Obama was never legally in office. The electoral votes cast for Obama are invalid...having been cast for someone not elidgeable. By precedent (although not in this exact factual pattern) they would be void...a nullity, leaving McCain with the majority of legitimate votes, thus becoming President. Even if you argue that the Obama votes count toward the majority and McCain failed to win the majority, then the issue goes to the House to choose from the five highest electoral vote getters...McCain and no others on the list since nobody else got a single Presidential electoral vote (unlike Clinton in 1992 when Gore got a little known vote when one of the electors switched them up).

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

BYTEMITE

Friday, July 17, 2009 9:22 PM

I believe Obama's proving ineligible would result in a removal from office, actually, because technically, he's been confirmed as President. By every definition, if he's confirmed President, then he is President. If he was ineligible when he became President, he would be removed from office, and the Vice President would take his place. Biden would be President.

I really don't see what any conservatives have to gain from this, or why they're wasting their time pursuing the matter. I think everyone has seriously more important things to do and worry about.

SIGNYM

Friday, July 17, 2009 9:22 PM

I'll have a scotch. Thanks Rue!

BTW- maybe he mean a duel dual purpose??? Or was that a dual duel purpose???

Quote:
I really don't see what any conservatives have to gain from this, or why they're wasting their time pursuing the matter. I think everyone has seriously more important things to do and worry about.

Personally, I think they should spend a GREAT DEAL of time on the issue! As much time as necessary to resolve it to their satisfaction!

After that, they can figure out why Sarah Palin resigned as governor, and then after that they can bird-dog the fake moon-landing.

KWICKO

Friday, July 17, 2009 10:26 PM

Quote:

I think my meaning was clear... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdon

I thought maybe you meant Eric Burdon, of The Animals, and later with the band War.

But since Rue's tending bar, I'll have a Martinez, please.

KWICKO

Friday, July 17, 2009 10:37 PM

Quote:

One could argue that Biden cannot become President and it would, by default, fall to John McCain...

One could, but then, McCain's not a natural-born citizen of the U.S. either, remember? He was born in the Panama Canal Zone a year BEFORE Congress passed a law making children of U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone U.S. citizens. So McCain is ineligible as well.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

HKCAVALIER

Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:22 AM

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

CANTTAKESKY

Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:32 AM

I'm with Frem on this one.

He produced a birth certificate, but it isn't good enough. I suspect if he produced the long form certificate, they'll find something else wrong with it.

I'm reminded of James Randi's million dollar challenge. Nobody is ever going to win that. No matter what you do, they will find something wrong with it. Why? Because they have already made up their minds that a certain result is impossible. No matter how close you approximate that result, they will find a way to reinforce the impossibility.

Sometimes, people don't really want the truth. They just want to raise a ruckus about finding the truth.

OUT2THEBLACK

Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I hear some folks are working on the Governator issue, actually.

I'm sure natural born citizenry isn't going to be a limitation for long.

If you don't think Obama has a secret agenda beyond the usual psychopathic corporate globalists, then this is all just pointless tecnicality, and why SHOULD we care?

What you're speaking of would require an Amendment to the Constitution , something that fortunately is not easy to arrange...

Yea , verily , perhaps these Folk are correct...

'Cause no one ever asks God for his birth certificate , right ?

BYTEMITE

Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I hear some folks are working on the Governator issue, actually.

I'm sure natural born citizenry isn't going to be a limitation for long.

If you don't think Obama has a secret agenda beyond the usual psychopathic corporate globalists, then this is all just pointless tecnicality, and why SHOULD we care?

What you're speaking of would require an Amendment to the Constitution , something that fortunately is not easy to arrange...

Yea , verily , perhaps these Folk are correct...

'Cause no one ever asks God for his birth certificate , right ?

Uh... What? Are you saying I'm one of those Obama worshippers?

Because if you're accusing me of that, I think maybe you need to read my posts a little more closely.

Obama can go fuck himself. I'm more concerned with repairing the mess both parties plus their puppetmasters are making. In the long run, a birth certificate doesn't MATTER. Authoritarian assholes will still be in power.

OUT2THEBLACK

Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

Uh... What? Are you saying I'm one of those Obama worshippers?

Because if you're accusing me of that, I think maybe you need to read my posts a little more closely.

Obama can go fuck himself. I'm more concerned with repairing the mess both parties plus their puppetmasters are making. In the long run, a birth certificate doesn't MATTER. Authoritarian assholes will still be in power.

You should not infer anything that I did not imply...

I'm a plain talker...

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:21 PM

Quote:
You should not infer anything that I did not imply... I'm a plain talker...

And your inference was plain, even at a distance of 3000 miles.

Cna we get past this childish he-said-she-said?

OUT2THEBLACK

Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
You should not infer anything that I did not imply... I'm a plain talker...
And your inference was plain, even at a distance of 3000 miles.

Cna we get past this childish he-said-she-said?

Not with your like...

Plainly you ought look at your dictionary awhile...

This wasn't 'tween you and me , so get over yourself...

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong,
are not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
--Theodore Roosevelt.

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:45 PM

Quote:
Not with your like...

Oh yeah, THAT'S constructive!

Quote:
Plainly you ought look at your dictionary awhile...

Ok, I typed too fast and meant implication. Got it now?

Quote:
This wasn't 'tween you and me ,

You may have noticed this is a PUBLIC forum???? Your IMPLICATION was clear to me and prolly to many other people as well. It would be interesting to see HOW MANY people caught your implication. Maybe we should take a poll. And if several people "misread" your posts, just possibly the problem is not them but you.

Quote:
so get over yourself

Indeed!

BYTEMITE

Saturday, July 18, 2009 8:04 PM

Sorry, thought your

Quote:
"Yea , verily , perhaps these Folk are correct...

'Cause no one ever asks God for his birth certificate , right ?"

Comment was in direct response to my "Why does a birth certificate matter" question. Which threw me, because I've been calling Obama corrupt since six days into his term. So I wanted to clarify, because I wasn't sure where the accusation was coming from.

Sorry again for the mix-up. And for bringing you under fire there... Wasn't my intent either. In retrospect, I probably should have asked you that in a PM. Sorry.

Anyway, let's get back to the topic of this thread before we get off course with ad hominem attacks.

In response to an earlier comment, it's not impossible to amend the constitution. In fact, I'd say a number of them, like the abolition of slavery and some of the civil rights acts are some nice additions.

Not sure whether changing the limitations on who can be president is a good idea, though, I grant you... Unless the amendment is dissolving the political parties and the electoral college, both of which were created solely to choose who became president instead of the public. Grassroots campaigns, while effective, will likely never get past the electoral college. We need to move towards true democracy... And we won't because the people in power like being in power.

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 18, 2009 8:39 PM

Byte, O2B has this "thing" about me. Pay it no mind.

OUT2THEBLACK

Saturday, July 18, 2009 8:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Sorry, thought your

Quote:
"Yea , verily , perhaps these Folk are correct...

'Cause no one ever asks God for his birth certificate , right ?"

Comment was in direct response to my "Why does a birth certificate matter" question. Which threw me, because I've been calling Obama corrupt since six days into his term. So I wanted to clarify, because I wasn't sure where the accusation was coming from.

Sorry again for the mix-up. And for bringing you under fire there... Wasn't my intent either. In retrospect, I probably should have asked you that in a PM. Sorry.

Anyway, let's get back to the topic of this thread before we get off course with ad hominem attacks.

In response to an earlier comment, it's not impossible to amend the constitution. In fact, I'd say a number of them, like the abolition of slavery and some of the civil rights acts are some nice additions.

Not sure whether changing the limitations on who can be president is a good idea, though, I grant you... Unless the amendment is dissolving the political parties and the electoral college, both of which were created solely to choose who became president instead of the public. Grassroots campaigns, while effective, will likely never get past the electoral college. We need to move towards true democracy... And we won't because the people in power like being in power.

No worries...

No , it isn't impossible to Amend the Constitution , but by design and intention , it IS difficult...

That's why Obama bin Biden and their associates are seeking every possible means to perform an end-run around the Constitution at every possible turn...

It also explains the Sotomayor nomination , in the context of D.C vs. Heller , as an example...

That begs the question also , when the Revolution was on , the Declaration published , the Constitution hammered out , just where were all the hypothetical " wise Latina women " hanging out , back then ?

On the notion of 'true democracy' , that form of government is actually excluded by the Constitution , and we're guaranteed a 'Republican' form of government therein...

FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Article IV The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article04/

Clearly , the Feds have been slacking in their Duty to repel invasion , when considering the onslaught of Alien invaders...

California presently has that form of government nearer to 'true democracy' , and that's a principal reason it's not working so well ; with the kettle about to boil over...

http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=13649050

OUT2THEBLACK

Saturday, July 18, 2009 8:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Byte, O2B has this "thing" about me. Pay it no mind.

About you being dogmatic and shooting from the lip ?

Calling Folk names , and then slinking out of sight ?

Sure...

BYTEMITE

Sunday, July 19, 2009 12:08 AM

Wait a minute, you're saying you like having a republic for a government, and think that Democracy is the reason California is failing? Even though a republic necessarily limits your voice and free speech?

KWICKO

Sunday, July 19, 2009 2:24 AM

Quote:

That begs the question also , when the Revolution was on , the Declaration published , the Constitution hammered out , just where were all the hypothetical " wise Latina women " hanging out , back then ?

They were no doubt being kept in the back, out of sight and out of earshot, and they damn sure had few to no rights - just as the "wise" men intended it to be and set it up to be.

So, since you think those white men were the only ones wise enough to hammer out a constitution, I take it you also agree with them that black men should only count as three-fifths of a person?

We've had plenty of "wise" white men on the Supreme Court, and they have made some pretty bad decisions without any help from a wise Latina woman.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

RUE

Sunday, July 19, 2009 4:23 AM

Piffle ! Details !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

OUT2THEBLACK

Sunday, July 19, 2009 6:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Wait a minute, you're saying you like having a republic for a government, and think that Democracy is the reason California is failing? Even though a republic necessarily limits your voice and free speech?

No , what I'm saying is that less government is better government , and that a Republic is what we're guaranteed..." A republic , if we can keep it..."

The limits on free speech are being imposed by a non-responsive elitist political class , but with the masses content with their public-school ignorance , it will be an uphill fight to secure against the incursions being made against the Bill Of Rights and the Constitution...

Mob rule is one of the reasons that California is failing , battered between one extreme and the other , in addition to unsustainable profligate spending by the State government...

Historically speaking , that is why democracies fail , because once the masses decide that they can vote 'benefits' for themselves at others' expense , they tend to do so , on into oblivion...

As the saying states , " As California goes , so goes the nation..."

There isn't much time...The tipping points are near...

OUT2THEBLACK

Sunday, July 19, 2009 7:10 PM

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/07/12/the-men-who-destroyed-t
he-constitution/#more-2420

'...In his 1850 Disquisition on Government, John C. Calhoun argued that a written constitution would never be sufficient to contain the plundering proclivities of a central government. Some mechanisms for assuring consensus among the citizens of the states regarding “federal” laws would be necessary. Consequently, Calhoun proposed giving citizens of the states veto power over federal laws that they believed were unconstitutional (the “concurrent majority”). He also championed the Jeffersonian idea of nullification. To Calhoun (and Jefferson), states’ rights meant that the citizens of the states were sovereign over the central government that they created as their agent, and could only be so if such mechanisms – including the right of secession – existed.

Without these political mechanisms the forces of nationalism, mercantilism, and political plunder would relentlessly reshape the Constitution with their rhetoric, and their efforts would eventually overwhelm the strict constructionists. At that point the Constitution would become a dead letter.

In his 2006 book, The Constitution in Exile, Judge Andrew Napolitano explains in very clear language just how prescient Calhoun was. The biggest special-interest group of all – the federal government itself – has “seized power by rewriting the supreme law of the land,” as Judge Napolitano says in the subtitle to his book. Just as Calhoun predicted. The purpose of the book, says the judge, is to tell “the unhappy story of liberty lost, federalism trampled, and Big Government run amok.”

How did we get to the point, he asks, of where the “federal” (i.e., central) government defines for us the drinking age for alcohol, how much wheat farmers can grow, the ability of terminally ill cancer patients to medicate themselves with marijuana, the amount of sugar that can be used in ketchup, and even the size of toilets?

Judge Napolitano is one libertarian who is not intimidated by the forces of political correctness, a defining feature of so many “beltway libertarians.” Consequently, he is not afraid to recognize the truth about the American founding: “The states were sovereign entities that the Continental Congress could not directly control. Essentially, there was no binding central government” Even better, “Congress could not tax the people of the United states (Ah, the good old days!)” Advocates of centralized governmental power have long falsely associated statements about states’ rights with racism and slavery, which has intimidated most beltway libertarians, but not Judge Napolitano.

After a lucid explanation of each section of the Constitution the judge discusses how the nationalist/mercantilist coalition, led by Alexander Hamilton and his accomplice Judge John Marshall, conspired to effectively rewrite (and undermine) the Constitution almost as soon as he ink was dry on the original copy. The “Federalists” (who would eventually morph into the Whigs, and then the Republicans) never accepted their defeat in the Constitutional convention (which created a federal, not a national government).

Nor did they accept Jefferson’s election as president. Thus, two days before his term ended the Federalist President John Adams appointed dozens of “midnight federal judges” and appointed John Marshall to the Supreme Court on March 3, 1801, one day before he would leave office. Marshall “spent the remainder of his career finding clearly disingenuous, historically inaccurate, and highly questionable justifications for ruling that federal power is not limited,” writes Judge Napolitano.

In his most famous decision, Marbury vs. Madison, Marshall gave the federal judiciary the power to rule on the constitutionality of both statutory law and the behavior of the executive branch. “[T]his means that the Supreme Court granted itself the authority to declare the will of the people . . . null and void . . .” This of course has caused endless mischief and tyranny.

This principle of

BYTEMITE

Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:23 PM

How is a Republic not a big government?

I don't care what we're guaranteed, I care what's best for the people. The system has flaws. The Constitution has flaws. The Forefounders had flaws.

I don't want a Republic. I want a democracy. People will vote to benefit themselves, it's true, but if everyone votes, UNLIKE in Greece, where the rich tax owners just voted to improve their lot (and what does that sound like?), then everyone will have equal say in how they will be benefited.

Of course, I don't think this would work over the 3,000 or so miles that constitutes the continental United States. I think States, or maybe even just local communities should govern themselves.

I think California is failing because they can't manage a budget, and because they have so many people they have to steal resources from other states (like mine). Their population is the problem; their voting system is the same as every other state.

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, July 20, 2009 1:51 AM

Actually the exposition of these deficiencies and abuses occurred BEFORE they happened.

Jan 1788 in point of fact, in the person of BRUTUS, within Antifederalist papers #11 and #12.
http://www.constitution.org/afp/brutus11.htm
http://www.constitution.org/afp/brutus12.htm#01

Me, I don't want a "republic" OR a "democracy" - I don't want anyone "ruling" me "for my own good"!

The concept that we are all just thieving, murderous, immoral louts who need control "for our own good" has been a lie ever since it's inception, usually by those offering that control for their own reasons which have nothing whatsoever to *do* with benefit to us.

Isn't it long past time we admitted this simple truth ?

Think about it, if someone removed the "rules" tomorrow, would YOU, personally, really act so differently ?

Would you immediately turn and prey on your fellow man ?

And if those "rules" no longer protected those who DO victimise others (and protect them with the full might of a national military, no less!) from retribution on behalf of those victims, do you really think they would be so very inclined to it anymore ?

You can talk till your blue in the face about how you want a "republic" or a "democracy" or some other form of what amounts to government, but don't be surprised at me laughing, as you stand there at the three card monte table playin the shell game like a sucker.

The elusive pea of freedom is NEVER under any of the shells, you fools, and never will be - if you WANT it, you must upset the table, and refuse to play the game.

Only then does success become possible in earnest.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

BYTEMITE

Monday, July 20, 2009 4:02 AM

In any community, there has to be some kind of agreement and ways to resolve problems and issues that come up. If you don't like democracy, how do you propose communities reach a consensus and move to act?

PIRATENEWS

Monday, July 20, 2009 11:52 AM

Retired general, lieutenant colonel join Major Cook's lawsuit over Obama's birth status
www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/story/778482.html

Obama Signs Executive Order 13489 Barring Release Of His Birth Certificate On January 21st, 2009, his very first day in office
http://freedomedium.com/2009/07/obama-signs-executive-order-barring-re
lease-of-his-birth-certificate/

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

The concept that we are all just thieving, murderous, immoral louts who need control "for our own good" has been a lie ever since it's inception, usually by those offering that control for their own reasons which have nothing whatsoever to *do* with benefit to us.

It's the theiving, murderous, immoral louts who want to rule us.

Head shrinkers call that "projection" in the loonybin.

Keith Olbermann is the Worst Person in the World!

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, July 20, 2009 3:57 PM

Quote:
In any community, there has to be some kind of agreement and ways to resolve problems and issues that come up. If you don't like democracy, how do you propose communities reach a consensus and move to act?

Very simple, the people *directly* affected by the results of that decision, and ONLY them - make the choice, with two caveats.

1. No force or violence.*

2. The agreement MUST BE UNANIMOUS.

Now, lemme illustrate why the first is so important, ok ?

Let's dispense with the myth that if you didn't use force that a decision would never come, that lie belongs in the dustbin right next to the idea that we need to be controlled for our own good - cause unless you discard these concepts why did you ever bother moving out of your parents house, yes ?

Fact is, once you remove force from the equation, negotiation and consensus actually becomes a smoother, cleaner, and often faster process, people ARE capable of getting along, never more so than without established structures encouraging them to hate over petty things like religion, or ethnicity, or what have you, that make no real difference otherwise in peoples interactions.

But once you add it, it becomes the easiest way, once you have the hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

And that is what government is, once you strip the lies away, raw naked force bent on making OTHER people do what YOU want them to do.

The concept itself is repulsive, but lemme make it crystal clear so there's no mistaking where my offense is, right-O ?

Every law, every regulation, every petty stinkin nitpick - has behind it LETHAL force, as in should you refuse to comply, then defend yourself from the thugs sent to force that compliance under threat, those thugs can and will kill you... in "self defense" of course, which is as much a falsehood as the notion that our troops are "just defending themselves" in Iraq.

So with that said - what are you, personally, willing to downright kill someone over ?

Like, maybe their garage is 2" wider than the building code allows, despite it being built long before that code was re-written that way ?

How about it then, do you think I should have to die because I refuse to mangle and rebuild my own garage on my own property at my own expense cause some other folk made a decision I wasn't even informed of, much less a participant in ?

Cause see - with the current system, that is what you are doing when you give your approval to laws, regs and the like, you are saying that you support enforcing them up to and including the death of those who fail to comply.

What's worth killin someone over to you ?

Just because you are removed enough from the actual enforcement that you don't have to get your own hands dirty or witness the carnage, does not in any way absolve you of the responsibility.

That is what my issue with it is, to be specific.

Now as for unanimous consent, well, there's two ways to get it - either kill/beatdown/incarcerate everyone who disagrees, a primitive and barbaric idiocy we STILL practice even though we pretend to be civilised, and something we damn well OUGHT to have had the moral decency and good sense to discard a couple hundred years ago...

Or, here's a novel thought - actually reason and negotiate with other people, contrary to what the established order would have you believe, that DOES actually WORK, you know!

Also, you might consider thinking about the word "community" and what the root expressions of it are, many rural communities, especially small ones, practice a form of de-facto collectivism even today, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone FORCED to participate in a barn-raising, but they come anyway, don't they ?

It all boils down to the simple fact that if left to get along, people DO get along, and what petty violence and disagreements occasionally happen in any human interaction are small in scale and rarely lethal - as opposed to when governments get involved and millions die, many of whom had no personal reason whatsoever to even dislike each other.

I

BYTEMITE

Monday, July 20, 2009 4:10 PM

Your definition of collectivism is pretty close to my definition of democracy. I always assumed that if someone had no interest in something, they wouldn't bother to vote or throw monkey wrenches in negotiation.

The only people who don't do that now are the people who want to add pork barrel and loopholes for themselves into everything, I thought.

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, July 20, 2009 4:28 PM

Ah, the devil of the details...

Actually the technical term behind my concept is Kropotkinist Anarchism.
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_archives/kropotkin/mutaidcontents
.html

But I did already suspect that what you meant by "democracy" was actually something closer to collectivist mutualism of a non-violent stripe, just from various discussions here.

Yet I did need to point out exactly where and why my breakpoint with conventional Governments, even our own "democracy" was.

-F

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 3:58 AM

Quote:
Smoking gun finally found?

United States Justice Foundation
April 28, 2009

AP- WASHINGTON D.C. - In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama’s qualifications for the presidency, the group “Americans for Freedom of Information” has Released copies of President Obama’s college transcripts from Occidental College. Released today, the transcript indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate at the school.

The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the Superior Court of California.

http://amfoi.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/barrysoetorooccidentalapplica
tion1978.pdf

The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, for the scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship. This document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of Obama’s detractors have been seeking.

Along with the evidence that he was first born in Kenya and there is no record of him ever applying for US citizenship, this is looking pretty grim. The news has created a firestorm at the White House as the release casts increasing doubt about Obama’s legitimacy and qualification to serve as president. When reached for comment in London, where he has been in meetings with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Obama smiled but refused comment on the issue.

Britain's Daily Mail has also carried the story in a front-page article titled, “Obama Eligibility Questioned,” leading some to speculate that the story may overshadow economic issues on Obama’s first official visit to the U.K.

In a related matter, under growing pressure from several groups, Justice Antonin Scalia announced that the Supreme Court agreed on Tuesday to hear arguments concerning Obama’s legal eligibility to serve as President in a case brought by Leo Donofrio of New Jersey. This lawsuit claims Obama's dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. Donofrio’s case is just one of 18 suits brought by citizens demanding proof of Obama’s citizenship or qualification to serve as president.

Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation has released the results of their investigation of Obama’s campaign spending. This study estimates that Obama has spent upwards of $950,000 in campaign funds in the past year with eleven law firms in 12 states for legal resources to block disclosure of any of his personal records. Mr. Kreep indicated that the investigation is still ongoing but that the final report will be provided to the U.S. attorney general, Eric Holder. Mr. Holder has refused to comment on the matter.

http://amfoi.wordpress.com/

President Obama = Oxymoron

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Quote:
Smoking gun finally found?

United States Justice Foundation
April 28, 2009

AP- WASHINGTON D.C. - In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama’s qualifications for the presidency, the group “Americans for Freedom of Information” has Released copies of President Obama’s college transcripts from Occidental College. Released today, the transcript indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate at the school.

The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the Superior Court of California.

http://amfoi.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/barrysoetorooccidentalapplica
tion1978.pdf

The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, for the scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship. This document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of Obama’s detractors have been seeking.

Along with the evidence that he was first born in Kenya and there is no record of him ever applying for US citizenship, this is looking pretty grim. The news has created a firestorm at the White House as the release casts increasing doubt about Obama’s legitimacy and qualification to serve as president. When reached for comment in London, where he has been in meetings with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Obama smiled but refused comment on the issue.

Britain's Daily Mail has also carried the story in a front-page article titled, “Obama Eligibility Questioned,” leading some to speculate that the story may overshadow economic issues on Obama’s first official visit to the U.K.

In a related matter, under growing pressure from several groups, Justice Antonin Scalia announced that the Supreme Court agreed on Tuesday to hear arguments concerning Obama’s legal eligibility to serve as President in a case brought by Leo Donofrio of New Jersey. This lawsuit claims Obama's dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. Donofrio’s case is just one of 18 suits brought by citizens demanding proof of Obama’s citizenship or qualification to serve as president.

Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation has released the results of their investigation of Obama’s campaign spending. This study estimates that Obama has spent upwards of $950,000 in campaign funds in the past year with eleven law firms in 12 states for legal resources to block disclosure of any of his personal records. Mr. Kreep indicated that the investigation is still ongoing but that the final report will be provided to the U.S. attorney general, Eric Holder. Mr. Holder has refused to comment on the matter.

http://amfoi.wordpress.com/

President Obama = Oxymoron

Hoax.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama_citizenship_quest
ioned.htm

Come on, at least.. show some effort.

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:11 PM

Meanwhile , patriot blogger Mark Yannone , age 52 , who has done much to publicize the Obama birth certificate / citizenship issue , has been FOUND DEAD in his home...

KWICKO

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:15 PM

PirateNews + Facts + Oxymoron.

Wow, PN - you quite literally could not be more wrong on this one:

Quote:

Analysis: Hoax. The April 1 posting date suggests it may have been intended as an April Fools prank, but given that it does little more than parrot some of the actual tenets of the so-called "Birther" movement (folks who claim Barack Obama is ineligible for the presidency due to alleged citizenship issues), it barely qualifies as satire.

Is it really an AP news story?
No. The Associated Press ("AP") never published such a story. It didn't run in any real newspaper, nor on any real wire service. It can, however, be found reposted on a plethora of anti-Obama blogs and websites.

Did a group called "Americans for Freedom of Information" release Obama's transcripts?
No. The organization doesn't exist — or it didn't at the time this message first began circulating, at any rate. A similarly-named website went up after the fact, but there's no evident connection between the website and this fake news story.

Have Obama's Occidental College transcripts been released at all?
No, nor has any court of law "ordered" them released, according to Occidental College administrators.

Did Obama attend Occidental under the name "Barry Soetoro"?
No. Soetoro was the name of Obama's stepfather, but there's no evidence he attended college under that name. Fellow alumni quoted in the press remember him as "Barry Obama." An Occidental College spokesperson told FactCheck.org there are no records showing that Obama used his stepfather's last name.

Did Obama attend Occidental under a Fulbright Scholarship for Foreign Students?
No. According to various news sources, Obama did attend Occidental on a scholarship, but it wasn't a Fulbright, let alone a Fulbright Scholarship designated for foreign students. The Fulbright Foreign Student Program is for Master's Degree and Ph.D. candidates. Obama was an undergraduate.

Did the Daily Mail mention these revelations in a news story entitled "Obama Eligibility Questioned"?
No. No such story turns up in a search of the British newspaper's archive.

Did the Supreme Court agree to hear arguments on Obama's eligibility?
No. The Supreme Court refused to consider the Donofrio case.

Did Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation release a study showing Obama has spent $950,000 in campaign funds to fight litigation over his legitimacy?
I could find no record of such a study being published. The Foundation does exist and its Executive Director is a man named Gary Kreep, but he is on record as saying this story is a hoax.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

KWICKO

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:16 PM

Meanwhile, Obama's grandmother, who had done much to confirm his birth in Hawaii, died just before the election...

Guess the "birthers" must've killed her to shut her up, eh?

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:

Hoax.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama_citizenship_quest
ioned.htm

That's exactly what I said:

http://amfoi.wordpress.com

It's just really funny to read that blog.

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:23 PM

Read Yannone's site while you still can , before it goes down the 'memory hole' :

http://yannone.blogspot.com/

http://yannone.blogspot.com/LL ( EDIT : This page with an MP3 on it has ALREADY been pulled down...)

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Meanwhile , patriot blogger Mark Yannone , age 52 , who has done much to publicize the Obama birth certificate / citizenship issue , has been FOUND DEAD in his home...

Very interesting... The "Obama" death squads are moving into action for the Shadow Govt.

Looks like he was murdered while posting his final blog on July 17:

Quote:
Orly Taitz skewers Obama with JD Hayworth on KFYI

Orly Taitz is taking Obama down

Friday July 17

www.yannone.org/audio/OrlyTaitzJDHayworth071509.mp3

http://yannone.blogspot.com

He was a very young guy who ran for US Congress:

Quote:

We regret to inform the visitors to this website that Mark Yannone
died during the night on 17 July 2009.
Mark is survived by three brothers, David, Phillip, and Peter.

If you would like to send any notes to his family, you may send them through the webmaster.

Thank you.

Who is Mark Yannone?

A 25-year resident of Arizona
A top-ranking ASU graduate with a Bachelor of Science degree in business
A successful, hard-working entrepreneur
A dedicated independent

What does Mark Yannone stand for?

Constitutionally limited government
Maximum personal freedom - minimum government power
Maximum economic freedom - drastically slashed taxes
Individual rights
Individual responsibility

Want to know more? Have a question for the candidate? Send an e-mail and get a prompt, personal response.

ALERT! Find out why you need a gun now.
www.yannone.org/innocents-betrayed.html

www.yannone.org

My email to his websites bounced:

Quote:
The following addresses had permanent fatal errors

mjyannone@aol.com

reason: 552 mjyannone MAILBOX FULL

... while talking to air-mc03.mail.aol.com.:
>>> RCPT To:>
<<< 552 mjyannone MAILBOX FULL
554 5.0.0 Service unavailable

"All political power is inherent in the people, and the governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, and are established to protect and maintain individual rights."
-Arizona State Constitution, Article II, Section 2

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Mark Yannone , a Constitution blogger , was FOUND DEAD in his Arizona home Monday...He was 52 years old...

Read Yannone's site while you still can , before it goes down the 'memory hole' :

http://yannone.blogspot.com/

http://yannone.blogspot.com/LL ( EDIT : This page with an MP3 on it has ALREADY been pulled down...)

Read this one particularly :

HONOLULU – Since January 24, 2009, the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children has apparently had a letter posted on its website to share congratulations on its centennial celebration from President [sic] Barack Obama.

In it Obama states, "As a beneficiary of the excellence of Kapi'olani Medical Center -- the place of my birth -- I am pleased to add my voice to the chorus of supporters."

Within an hour of WorldNetDaily posting an article questioning the letter's authenticity, noting it was used by the hospital for its fundraising efforts, a host of Internet scrubbing bubbles went to work.

The letter, an HTML-created document with no White House logo, posted on the hospital's website since January and touted by U.S. Representative Neil Abercrombie, D-HI, who is captured on video reading the letter with embellishments, as possibly the first official letter written by Obama as President, was yanked off the Internet as WND investigated conflicting reports and articles on Snopes.com asserting Obama's birthplace in Honolulu was Kapi'olani Medical Center as well as Queen's Medical Center.

According to WND, Kapi'olani Medical Center has refused to address the letter's authenticity.

In light of the letter's exposure, Snopes.com went to work scrubbing away all references to Obama being born at Queen's Medical Center, changing them to say Kapi'olani Medical Center, adding, "(News accounts have also variously reported his birth as having occurred at Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu)," which included a hyperlink to the United Press International article stating Obama was born at Queen's Medical Center.

No sooner did Snopes change its website than did UPI get out scrubbing bubbles to change the linked article, which said, "Obama described his birth at Queen's Medical Center in Hawaii …" to say Kapi'olani Medical Center.

Snopes then responded by removing the link to the UPI article.

During a White House press briefing on Monday, WND's White House correspondent Les Kinsolving asked Press Secretary Robert Gibbs if he could confirm the authenticity of the letter.

Gibbs, without addressing whether or not the letter was from the President [sic], said, "Goodness gracious. I'm going to be, like, in year four describing where it is the president was born. I don't have the letter at my fingertips, obviously, and I don't know the name of the exact hospital."

FightTheSmears.com, the website initiated by the Obama for America Political Action Committee to combat all potentially negative information about Obama, including eligibility questions, has recently been taken down.

After all remaining websites appeared to have their Obama birth places in synchronized harmony by eradicating references to Queen's Hospital, on July 9, in anticipation of Obama's arrival in Ghana, ModernGhana.com posted an article titled, "History Beckons - As Prez Obama Arrives Tomorrow," stating, "For Ghana, Obama's visit will be a celebration of another milestone in African history as it hosts the first-ever African-American President on this presidential visit to the continent of his birth."

That statement has been corroborated by Obama's paternal grandmother in Kenya, who insists she was there in the delivery room when Obama was born at Coast Medical Center in Mombasa, Kenya.

Phil from TheRightSideofLife.com quipped, "It appears that ModernGhana.com didn't get the memo …"

Over the weekend, WND began tracking changes made to Wikipedia regarding Obama's birthplace. At around 4:45 p.m. on Sunday, Wikipedia stated, "Barack Obama, the current President of the United States, was born on August 4, 1961 in eithe

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:

Mark Yannone , a Constitution blogger , was FOUND DEAD in his Arizona home Monday...He was 52 years old...

Read Yannone's site while you still can , before it goes down the 'memory hole' :

http://yannone.blogspot.com/

http://yannone.blogspot.com/LL ( EDIT : This page with an MP3 on it has ALREADY been pulled down...)

I submitted it to Archive.org Wayback Machine.

I wonder how long before their servers have an "accident"?

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:44 PM

'Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution states, "No person except a natural born citizen... shall be eligible to the office of president."

This invalidates the legitimacy of Barack Obama's presidency if, as a growing number of people believe, he was in fact born in Kenya and not Hawaii as he claims. After mounting pressure, the Obama campaign released a Hawaiian birth certificate on June 13 2008, but skeptics claimed that it showed signs of being forged.

Contained in an otherwise relatively mundane account of Obama's recent visit to Ghana in the Daily Graphic news outlet is a sentence sure to raise eyebrows amongst people like journalist Jerome Corsi, who has been at the forefront of the Obama birth certificate scandal since well before the election.

The full paragraph reads, "For Ghana, Obama's visit will be a celebration of another milestone in African history as it hosts the first-ever African-American President on this presidential visit to the continent of his birth."

Why the Ghanaian news outlet would report that Obama was born on the continent of Africa, when this would instantly invalidate his entire presidency, is unclear.'

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=21822

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:50 PM

'...On his Illinois State Bar application where it asked for other names used by the applicant, Obama stated, "none."

Allen states, "Because … Barack Obama denies he was ever called Barry Soetoro it shouldn't be a problem with transparency when it comes to producing the requested records … And because Barry Soetoro is not a citizen, as defined by the law, he isn't protected by the FOIA."

According to Allen, Indonesia has not allowed dual citizenship since 1945, and, therefore, Soetoro's mother Stanley Ann Soetoro would have been required to relinquish her son's American citizenship and any other citizenship he might have held, in order for him to become an Indonesian citizen, which school records confirm he became.

So, Allen modified his request to ask for an original copy of the immigration records pertaining to Barry Soetoro, circa 1971, when he returned to Hawaii, along with documents indicating whether or not Soetoro is still an Indonesian citizen. If not, Allen asked for documentation as to when he became a naturalized citizen.

Allen requested copies of Soetoro's passports for the years 1979 through 1982, including his Indonesian passport for the years 1979 through 1982, a copy of his passport and documented history of travel to Pakistan and nationality contained therein for the years 1981 and 1982.

He also requested a copy of Stanley Ann Soetoro's (Dunham and Obama) passport and travel history for the years 1959 through 1987 along with the same for Lolo Soetoro, citing the requests were not subject to 6 CFR § 5.21(f), which requires permission from the individual, because both subjects are deceased.

Citing the Privacy Act's laudable goals of protecting sensitive information, Allen said it only protects U.S. citizens and permanent resident aliens and "does not apply not foreigners, unions, collective associations or corporations."

Allen asserts Barry Soetoro is neither a citizen of the United States nor an alien with permanent residence and said "… we know Barry Soetoro was an Indonesian citizen at the age of 7 and that he had ties in Hawaii," noting Soetoro would have had to have gone through immigration and customs at some point between 1961 and 2009." '

http://lindabentley.blogspot.com/

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:53 PM

I was very strange today to hear Alex Jones FREAK OUT on a caller who discussed Obama's lack of birth certificate. I've never heard Jones SCREAM at a caller before, at a psycho pitch far above his normal rant. Sounded like ATF killing wabbits at Waco. This was a old man calling in, so Jones was extra rude.

Today Jones alleged this issue is "not important", and refused to discuss all the COURT CASES past and pending on this issue, nor discuss the Pentagon cancelling orders to go to war for every soldier who sues to see Obama's birth certificate.

In his DVD "Obama Deception", Jones censored all reference to the litigation vs Obama's lack of birth certificate.

VERY strange, but to be expected if Jone's is under secret orders to control the "Patriot Movement". Jones also has Jason "Loose Change" Bermas as guest host, who also freaks out and demands all callers be murdered for discussing "jews". Could be Jones is sucking up to jews and demorats to break into Hollywood. "Rescue Me" TV star Daniel Sunjata is narrating the new Loose Change 9/11 DVD produced by Jones. Or it could be Jones has PTSD phobia about court cases, due to nearly being a convicted felon for punching brawlers into comas?

RUE

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:53 PM

I suggest you get a ticket to Ghana RIGHT AWAY to track this down. Why leave it rumor and second-hand sources when you can get the definitive proof you need ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:58 PM

Yeah, this sounds "normal":

Quote:
Steve Yannone (no relation - close friend)

steveyannone at aol.com

Will provide more details when family comes to town. Close friends can contact Steve for more details. It is believed that he died from an epileptic seizure that he regularly suffered from. Sometime between Friday afternoon and Saturday morning. We'll have more details as they become available.

Many of us have known Mark since the mid 90's as a very principled and active libertarian. He was expected to be heavily engaged in the coming election cycle again. He will be missed.

Ernie

www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article/053759-2009-07-20-mark-yannone-freedom
sphoenix-contributor-and-arizona-activist-found-dead.htm

I saw a Hooters girl have an epileptic seizure while standing next to a rotating/flashing red light, similar to a fire truck emergency light. So it's very easy to trigger using flicker rates on TVs (Andromeda Strain 1)...

The most important job of a county coroner is to falsify death certificates for govt assassinations. Dr Malik during Clinton Arkansides said getting arms and legs hacked off and riddles with bullets was "suicide".

Knox Co TN coronor Dr Randal Pedigo was shot 6 times by TBI agents during a raid of his home to find a gun used by local carthieves (police towing contractors) used to kill a state cop. The police death squad shot then hanged the killer in retaliation, and the coroner called it "suicide". Dr Pedigo, who was a KPD firearms instructor and pilot, was jailed for homosexual pedophile rape using "vitamin shots" (knockout drugs) on hospital staff at his home, then keeping photos after he stripped them nekked on his bed...

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:02 PM

Plaintiffs...

( Charles F. Kerchner, Jr.
CDR USNR Retired
Lead Plaintiff

Kerchner et al vs. Obama & Congress et al )

...have filed a Brief against Defendants' Motion To Dismiss , according to the Attorney working the Kerchner lawsuit in New Jersey :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17519578/

http://puzo1.blogspot.com/

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:14 PM

Not just the Ghanaians' believe Obama was born in Africa , the Kenyan Ambassador to the United States does , also .

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Plaintiffs...

( Charles F. Kerchner, Jr.
CDR USNR Retired
Lead Plaintiff

Kerchner et al vs. Obama & Congress et al )

...have filed a Brief against Defendants' Motion To Dismiss , according to the Attorney working the Kerchner lawsuit in New Jersey :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17519578/

http://puzo1.blogspot.com/

I'll try to use those arguments in my fed traffic ticket appeal.

PHOENIXROSE

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Indonesia has not allowed dual citizenship since 1945, and, therefore, Soetoro's mother Stanley Ann Soetoro would have been required to relinquish her son's American citizenship and any other citizenship he might have held, in order for him to become an Indonesian citizen

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Indonesia doesn't recognize dual citizenship, this is true. But just because they don't recognize it, that doesn't mean it isn't there. The laws or policies of Indonesia do not dictate what the United States will or will not recognize, and the United States does recognize dual citizenship. The United States also has very specific guidelines around relinquishing citizenship, and guess what? It's NOT something that can be done by your parents on your behalf. It's NOT something that can be done to or by a minor at all. It requires personal declaration from the effected party, after the age of eighteen. Guess what else? I've covered all this before, in your first ridiculous post about this. I outlined all this, and more, with a link to the government site that lays out these rules for anyone to see if they bother looking for five seconds.
I can't believe anyone is still acting like this is an issue. Impervious to facts is right.

[/sig]

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:

I suggest you get a ticket to Ghana RIGHT AWAY to track this down. Why leave it rumor and second-hand sources when you can get the definitive proof you need ?

Obama orders the arrest of every person going to Kenya to seek his birth records, as Jerome Corsi PhD found out when he tried to pay Obama's homeless brother $1,000.

That's not the same Obama brother deported from England for rape.

Obama's CIA riots in British Kenya

Obama's cousin Odinga is prime minister of Kenya, after Obama campigned in Kenya for him and spent $1-million of his US campaign funds on that Communist campaign. Odinga and Obama massacred 1,000 black Christians and burned down 800 black churches to extort Kenya to reverse electio nresults where Odinga lost the presidential election, and creating to non-existant job of prime minister, in order to stop Obama's terrorism.

So Obama will literally hack your arms off by machete then set a burning tire necklace around your neck, if you dare go to Communist Kenya in the British Empire.

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Indonesia doesn't recognize dual citizenship, this is true. But just because they don't recognize it, that doesn't mean it isn't there. The laws or policies of Indonesia do not dictate what the United States will or will not recognize, and the United States does recognize dual citizenship. The United States also has very specific guidelines around relinquishing citizenship, and guess what? It's NOT something that can be done by your parents on your behalf. It's NOT something that can be done to or by a minor at all. It requires personal declaration from the effected party, after the age of eighteen. Guess what else? I've covered all this before, in your first ridiculous post about this. I outlined all this, and more, with a link to the government site that lays out these rules for anyone to see if they bother looking for five seconds.
I can't believe anyone is still acting like this is an issue. Impervious to facts is right.

Illegal aliens and their kids are never citizens of USA, nor any other nation.

When tourists have babies, their kids are never citizens of the host nation.

Fraud always voids all contracts, especially citizenship. Obama failed to list his alias Barry Soetoro on numerous documents, like his lawyer license.

No nation can survive alien presidents. That's why there's a law against it.

Every superpower tries to infiltrait their enemies via alien leaders. Like US residents Sarkosy in France and what's his name in Bosnia or Kzachstan or wherever, that USA and Israel used to massacre Russian troops last year.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:17 PM

I thought his mother was an American? If she was a tourist at the time of visiting another country, by your own statement doesn't that mean Obama would not be granted citizenship of the country his mother was visiting, but rather her country of birth?

Whether he's from a different country or not, he's going to do whatever people TELL him to do. I still don't see how his citizenship is an issue. He sucks either way.

RUE

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:17 PM

"But , can't get the youTube vid to work any more..."

Yeah - DAMN ! that government ! Suppressing SOLID PROOF at every turn ! I mean, if a video on YouTube isn't proof enough, what more could you possibly want ! DAMN THEM TO HELL ! It was the ONE missing link on which everything depends !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:28 PM

His Kenyan grandmother and several other African relatives also have consistently asserted that attorney (Lie-yer) Obama was born in Kenya...

What's up with that ?

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I still don't see how his citizenship is an issue. He sucks either way.

It's only a non-issue if the baby goes out with the bathwater .

In this case , the 'baby' is the Constitution , which , like it or not , still requires BOTH of a Presidential candidates' parents to be US Citizens capable of conferring citizenship upon their child by virtue of his being 'natural-born', in other words , native to the United States...

Plain and simple...

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I suggest you get a ticket to Ghana RIGHT AWAY to track this down. Why leave it rumor and second-hand sources when you can get the definitive proof you need ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Now there's a brilliant notion...

But , since the burden of proof belongs to Barack 'Barry' Hussein Soetoro Obama Soetoro WhatzizzName? ScamBO , or whatever the pRESIDENT calls himself these days ; a better idea would be for you to call the White House and demand that SCair Force 1 be immediately dispatched to Hawaii , so that the Commander-In-Thief may go to obtain records to clear this up straight away...

The Pentagon and the Kommittee for State Security (DHS), can co-ordinate with FAA for a 'photo op', then BarryO can order the pilots to buzz Honolulu fo' shizzle and giggizzles...

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:47 PM

The constitution is a flawed document anyway: if something doesn't work, I'm fine with starting over with something better.

It gets some things right, but this? I don't see the consequences of a non-native president. All the arguments I've seen so far are that this is bad because it violates the constitution (in other words, the law). That's not a valid logical argument.

PN posted some examples of non-native presidents causing bad issues in other nations, so where's the evidence that's happening here, and that it's BECAUSE Obama is a non-native?

I figure, either way, he's doing stuff I don't agree with. But these challenges to his legitimacy aren't going to change anything, and really aren't winning anyone over. You want to get him out, focus on some of the OTHER bad shit he's done.

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
The constitution is a flawed document anyway: if something doesn't work, I'm fine with starting over with something better.

It gets some things right, but this? I don't see the consequences of a non-native president.

I figure, either way, he's doing stuff I don't agree with. But these challenges to his legitimacy aren't going to change anything, and really aren't winning anyone over. You want to get him out, focus on some of the OTHER bad shit he's done.

If it's flawed , there are Lawful procedures in place for modifying it...

It's all a matter of planning the work , then working the plan...

Problem is , the elitist Kleptocrat ruling-class is not about sticking to OUR script , they have their OWN...

They're not about including the peons in the process , are they ?

The whole notion of REQUIRING that the President be a Citizen of native birth on US soil is to prohibit a 'Usurper' , someone with Divided Loyalties , from bringing Harm , or 'Clear and Present Danger , to the United States or its Sovereignty...

If Barry didn't like that detail , he should've Lawfully worked to Amend the Constitution aforetime .

'...That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.'

--IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:14 PM

The Declaration is not the Constitution, but all right, I agree with your sentiment.

Although, it's kinda a juxtaposition to see someone talk about the methods in place to amend the constitution, then post a document that talks about long suffering leading to abolishing the forms (of government) that people are accustomed to.

Personally, I think I'd rather just start over. Take some of the ideas, but move on, rather than limit myself to the language and restrictions that have already been created that have lead to the current mess.

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:15 PM

Bailouts could cost 23 TRILLION

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25164.html

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:27 PM

Obama has a US passport, which requires a birth certificate or proof of naturalization. (I know, I obtained mine with my certificate of birth and my husband obtained his with his naturalization papers) Lawsuits about Obama's citizenship are frivolous.

RUE

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:31 PM

"But , since the burden of proof belongs to Barack 'Barry' Hussein Soetoro Obama Soetoro WhatzizzName? ScamBO ..."

Really ? REALLY ??

Well then, for the record, you're a child rapist and a drug dealer who pimps out your own infant daughter - and BTW - the burden of proof is on you to show us all you're not.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

KWICKO

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:44 PM

Quote:
And because Barry Soetoro is not a citizen, as defined by the law, he isn't protected by the FOIA.

Really? So if you claim that someone isn't a citizen, you can use that claim in your efforts to try to dig up "proof" that that person isn't a citizen?

That sounds almost as convoluted as the Bush Administration's "It's-not-torture-if-we-call-it-enhanced-interrogation" logic.

Shouldn't you have to prove that YOU are a citizen before even being able to question someone else's citizenship? I've never seen proof that you're a citizen, so would you please leave the country now?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

KWICKO

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:48 PM

Quote:

Illegal aliens and their kids are never citizens of USA, nor any other nation.

You sure about that? You seriously might want to check into that a bit closer.

By the way, you are seeming PARTICULARLY desperate the last few days. You're posting stuff that is clearly, demonstrably completely false, and claiming it as fact, and then when exposed, you're trying to claim that you knew it was bullshit all along.

Your usual line of BS is becoming weaker tea than usual.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"But , since the burden of proof belongs to Barack 'Barry' Hussein Soetoro Obama Soetoro WhatzizzName? ScamBO ..."

Really ? REALLY ??

Well then, for the record, you're a child rapist and a drug dealer who pimps out your own infant daughter - and BTW - the burden of proof is on you to show us all you're not.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

The SickyNym/Ruetard Attack Squad Axis is back in action , performing their reflexive ad hominem
attacks , ad nauseum...

Actually , I'm none of the above...But , I didn't get SElected pRESIDENT by employing subterfuge and fraud , either...

The burden of proof is ALWAYS going to be on those who'd seek to lead by holding elected office...Folk should hold the electees to account , keep their feet to the fire , so to speak . Like Ben 'BurntAnkles' Bernanke , he's not even elected , but he's in charge of Monetary Policy, and wants MORE power ? Ron Paul roasted his hinder regions AGAIN Today , it was freakin' HI-larious !

Hillary Clinton paranoid-fantasy 'vast right-wing conspiracy' is no doubt responsible for this , right ?

But , ever since she first painted that picture , folk have looked into her fantasy , and found nothing there , except a 'vasty nothingness' ,
and her fellow fantasizers...

You do realize that you can be prosecuted for making false statements concerning my character , right ?

Any moment now , Squicko and ShittiZen will no doubt join the dogpile , and start flinging go se , correct ?

EDIT: Jedi Mind Trick , already in progress...

.

RUE

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:56 PM

"The burden of proof is ALWAYS going to be on those who'd seek to lead by holding elected office..."

Yes, we all know that you are qualified to give us a valid legal opinion on this matter. (not.)

***************************************************************

"But , since the burden of proof belongs to Barack 'Barry' Hussein Soetoro Obama Soetoro WhatzizzName? ScamBO ..."

Really ? REALLY ??

Well then, for the record, you're a child rapist and a drug dealer who pimps out your own daughter - and BTW - the burden of proof is on you to show us all you're not.

Because WHY ? Well, because I said so !

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
The Declaration is not the Constitution, but all right, I agree with your sentiment.

Although, it's kinda a juxtaposition to see someone talk about the methods in place to amend the constitution, then post a document that talks about long suffering leading to abolishing the forms (of government) that people are accustomed to.

If you want to start over , maybe you should seek out that book I linked to above , this past Sunday...

http://www.amazon.com/Constitution-Exile-Federal-Government-Rewriting/
dp/1595550704/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248030586&sr=1-1

Of course , I do know that the Declaraton and the Constitution are not the same , but the Declaration exhibits the Unanimity of the Colonies
in opposing Tyranny...

Both the Declaration and the Constitution are landmarks in History , for Independent-minded Thinkers...

I referenced the Declaration because you'd expressed your dissatisfaction with the status quo , and it tells of 'Abuses and Usurpations' , which we have all endured , and which are probably even more egregious now than in the times under the heel of King George...

KWICKO

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I still don't see how his citizenship is an issue. He sucks either way.

It's only a non-issue if the baby goes out with the bathwater .

In this case , the 'baby' is the Constitution , which , like it or not , still requires BOTH of a Presidential candidates' parents to be US Citizens capable of conferring citizenship upon their child by virtue of his being 'natural-born', in other words , native to the United States...

Plain and simple...

Plain and simple... and untrue.

I know you don't like inconvenient facts, but just because you make the claim a bunch of times, that in itself does not make it true.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:03 PM

Show your CITES , attack-drone Squicko !

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:03 PM

Quote:
The SickyNym/Ruetard Attack Squad Axis is back in action , performing their reflexive ad hominem attacks , ad nauseum...The burden of proof is ALWAYS going to be on those who'd seek to lead by holding elected office..

Did I attack YOU, Out2Nowhere? My post, you sh^tstick, was not a personal attack. And Rue's was an EXAMPLE of of WHY the burden of proof lies with the accuser. Something about presumed innocent... a concept you seem to have a serious problem with. (As you do with a lot of concepts, apparently. One of them being polite conversation.) Are you such a moron that you didn't get that point?

So, if you really thought my previous post was ad hominem, I thought I'd give you one, you friggin' retard.

Obama has a valid USA passport. Go f*ck yourself, if you can figure out which end is which.

KWICKO

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I suggest you get a ticket to Ghana RIGHT AWAY to track this down. Why leave it rumor and second-hand sources when you can get the definitive proof you need ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Now there's a brilliant notion...

But , since the burden of proof belongs to Barack 'Barry' Hussein Soetoro Obama Soetoro WhatzizzName? ScamBO , or whatever the pRESIDENT calls himself these days ; a better idea would be for you to call the White House and demand that SCair Force 1 be immediately dispatched to Hawaii , so that the Commander-In-Thief may go to obtain records to clear this up straight away...

The Pentagon and the Kommittee for State Security (DHS), can co-ordinate with FAA for a 'photo op', then BarryO can order the pilots to buzz Honolulu fo' shizzle and giggizzles...

Actually, the burden of proof is on you. And you don't have any.

No matter how many times you say that Obama "must" show his "real" birth certificate, there's been no real and compelling reason for him to do so, other than your claim that he doesn't have one, which isn't a valid legal reason.

By that logic, I can sit here and claim that you have no legal standing in this country, and no reason to be here, and it's on you to prove that you do!

You guys are REALLY getting wrapped up in all this, and it's seriously clouding your ability to think rationally. Now you and PN are just making up stuff that is completely fabricated out of your own imaginations, and trying to cite it as "constitutional" and "legal" expertise.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Did I attack YOU, Out2Nowhere? My post, you sh^tstick, was not a personal attack. And Rue's was an EXAMPLE of of WHY the burden of proof lies with the accuser. Something about presumed innocent... a concept you seem to have a serious problem with. (As you do with a lot of concepts, apparently. One of them being polite conversation.) Are you such a moron that you didn't get that point?

So, if you really thought my previous post was ad hominem, I thought I'd give you one, you friggin' retard.

Obama has a valid USA passport.

So YOUR strategy is to Elect the Reprehensible , the Immoral , the Guilty , and then , perhaps ask questions maybe LATER ?

I can see why you're getting the Government YOU deserve...

Count me out of that...

So , you're a Forensic Document Expert and Barry saw fit to Show YOU his passport ?

And , being Duly Sworn to Duty , you also examined the Validity of the Documents that Barry submitted to Obtain said Passport ?

Do tell , please , how you are so Privileged to be Privy to such Secrets ?

Was it by special Appointment and Anointing by the Obamessiah ?

Surely , you are SO Blessed among all women !

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:13 PM

Yeah. I haven't liked what I've been seeing with the government for maybe ten years now. Before then, I was too young to pay attention, and hadn't read what I have now.

So I'm pretty new at this resist the government civil dissent stuff. From what I've observed, seems like the best thing I can do is stay informed and don't take anything for granted, because you can get lied to. And to not dismiss a concern about the government that the people around you consider paranoia, because better safe than sorry.

The more I know, the more I can use that knowledge. Don't know how to shoot a gun, don't really want to learn, so that's my contribution to making things better.

RUE

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:15 PM

When PN's mind unwraps itself it's just sad - he can't help it.

But when your mind falls apart - it's really, really funny. You are your own best joke and punchline. Keep at it !

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Silence is consent.

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