Obama is doing a job.
POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Thursday, July 2, 2009 13:59
VIEWED: 13329
PAGE 13 of 14
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
How do you propose we *make* that happen?
The movie Equilibrium comes to mind, but then again, at the end of that movie they chose blood over zombieism.
That is one dream that will never be realized. And I just said recently that we will end up annihilating our own species in the end. The only reason we're starting to "overexibit" the bad is because it's become the collective bad that only a handful of people are in charge of today.
The bad has always been there. From the day your kids are born you don't have to teach them how to steal. If you don't teach them NOT to steal, they will steal.
Exactly as you say. Education and teaching by EXAMPLE. Currently, our society tries to teach people to get along with others - mostly to create a population of mindless followers, which ALSO needs to be addressed - but when children go home and their parents teach them violence, neglect, and self-serving behaviour, what pattern set are children going to take away?
So parents-to-be will need to be taught/have places they can go for advice and help, and we should try to ensure that every child is a child who's wanted and appreciated. Fixing the adoption system would be a good start. Also, we should continue to work on improving the quality of life for all people, because desperation causes many of these destructive behaviours.
I don't propose zombification, I propose people having empathy towards other people. We ARE capable of that, even if none of us are mind readers. Otherwise, you wouldn't see cases of strangers sacrificing themselves for others, or people trying to save someone who is hurt and dying when they don't know them.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I gotta toss in another vote for th ewhole 'blood over zombieism"thing...frankly I strongly resent ANYONE trying to put a leash on me-whether or not they have an "R" or a "D" next to their name.
I think someone summed it up better than I could ever hope to:"Any goverment big enough to give you evrything you want,is big enough to take everything you've got"...
No,I do not worship at the altar of the Leviathan State,and no;I have no trust;and little regard for the current president.
Unfortunately,the last one made enough mis-steps(perceieved or actual) to make this guy seem like a good pick to 51% of the voters.
Screw Utopia-count me as part of the "Leave Us Alone!"coalition.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Exactly as you say. Education and teaching by EXAMPLE. Currently, our society tries to teach people to get along with others - mostly to create a population of mindless followers, which ALSO needs to be addressed - but when children go home and their parents teach them violence, neglect, and self-serving behaviour, what pattern set are children going to take away?
So parents-to-be will need to be taught/have places they can go for advice and help, and we should try to ensure that every child is a child who's wanted and appreciated. Fixing the adoption system would be a good start. Also, we should continue to work on improving the quality of life for all people, because desperation causes many of these destructive behaviours.
I don't propose zombification, I propose people having empathy towards other people. We ARE capable of that, even if none of us are mind readers. Otherwise, you wouldn't see cases of strangers sacrificing themselves for others, or people trying to save someone who is hurt and dying when they don't know them.
On an individual level I agree that we are capable of good.
Collectively, we are incapable of it though. The world has yet to divise a power structure that can maintain benevolent intentions and isn't bastardized to serve the wants of a few As long as human beings run it and are part of society, it will always fail to be Utopia.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You're funny Cit. "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I don't normally have to respond twice, but let's see what we have here:
A statement that just because I'm in the military, doesn't mean I know anything about military operations...I shouldn't even need to respond to that.
A suggestion that I should "prove" that the US didn't provide the US made weapons no one has seen in Iraq. Negative proof.
A claim that, without even knowing my background, I'm "only an NCO." That falls under ad hominem.
So far, we have a bunch of tricks used by someone who knows nothing about a subject, trying futilely to claim someone else doesn't either.
Now, what I posted was my THEORY, based on AVAILABLE EVIDENCE. If you feel my facts are wrong, feel free to refute them. If you feel my conclusions are wrong, offer a better theory. Don't try that, "it's about oil," BS, because I'll laugh at you:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/info_glance/petroleum.html
hmm...looks like Iraq is right at 3.3% this month, which is about its historical high point. We got none from 1991-2003, and very little before, partly because the only terminal is a shallow water one in the Shatt al Arab, and because it's a long way away. Also, if it was about oil, one suspects the US military would have engineers like myself building pipelines and trucking highways, not power stations and hospitals. But feel free to develop your own theories.
Incidentally, while my last Army unit had 17 officers for 148 people, my last four USAF units had 3 officers each for about 150 people. So guess who does most of the planning and management in the Air Force? Gee, that would be NCOs.
Nor did I claim any special insight. I just used critical thinking. I also consulted with:
The Economic Policy Advisor for Eastern Europe, who's an Army Reserve sergeant, with a master's degree.
The Deputy of the Electronic Imaging Branch, who's a Guard sergeant with no degree.
A USN Academy grad (4.0) nucleonics engineer and surface warfare officer.
Her husband who is a sub and surface warfare officer and nuke engineer.
A USAF Academy grad and intel officer.
A former USAF intel officer, now engineer and contractor.
A former SEAL PO, later Navy software security contractor, and now security chief for a very large European bank.
A former USAF NCO who's a systems manager at USAF Global Weather Central.
A retired Army warrant officer special operations combat pilot from 160th SOAR, now "security contractor."
A non-degreed USAF command and control NCO.
Bunches of former and retired enlisted and officers in my forum, everything from Coastie mechanics to Rangers, infantry, mechanics, cryptologists and what have you.
Now, we could ALL be wrong, and possibly someone who can dismiss "just an NCO" is smarter than all of us.
But my bet is not.
In any case, I don't have time to argue about it. I have professional stuff to do.
You probably also don't want to believe that if President Fuckup tries a surge in Asscrackistan, it will work about as well as LBJ's surge in Vietnam, after Kennedy set him up for success.
You don't have to believe me. Go read the military history of Afghanistan.
In any case, I've had my say. If anyone has any concrete issues to discuss, feel free to email me. This thread is dead.
Oh, yes:
Ran across a useful cite:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Arms-sales-to-Iraq-1973_1990
Summary $ value of arms sales to Iraq, 1973-1990:
USSR/WP: $30,301m
France: $5,595m
China: $5,192m
US: $200m
Egypt: $568m
Other: $2,104m
So, even if you count dual use equipment, .46% of Iraq's military resources. That would be about 10 helicopters and a few trucks. That's using the MOST FAVORABLE figures for the "we sold him weapons" crowd.
As far as "Western" weapons, I believe I mentioned what those French whores and their German and Russian counterparts provided. That's why the UN security council voted against invading--two of the permanent members had their @#$'s in the breeze.
I'm also surprised that wannabe Browncoats would care what th
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
So, iirc, the original title of this thread was "Obama is doing a great job" and it's been "Obama is doing a job" for a while now. I like this second version of the title because that about sums up how I've felt about him from the beginning. I don't perceive the presidency as a religious office, head of the Church of Truth, Justice and the American Way; I don't see it as the grand prize in a game of capture the flag between the Good People and the Destroyers of Decency--I see it as a job, a pretty effed up, nigh impossible job. And as far as applicants go, this kid Obama was by far the stand out.
And I'd say he's doing alright, he's holding his own and despite what the 24 hour news cycle wants to think, it's still early days.
I never really expected him to be any more revolutionary than he already is--to ask for more could be asking for him to put his head on the block, and I don't demand that kind of thing of anyone, ever. He's the first ever black president of a western democracy at a time when this country is more divided than I've ever seen it.
Of course, I would like to have seen him get out in front of this horrific torture business and clean house. The problem is, if he were to do that, it would surely mean prosecuting the Bush Admin. and if the guy named Barrack Hussein Obama were to do that, he, I think, would be putting the biggest bulls-eye you've ever seen right over his breast pocket.
We've heard how close a certain constituency is to demanding his head. Civil war, assassination, tell me these things aren't remotely likely were Obama to release the photos of our people systematically raping the detainees and their family members; or if he were to release the last hundred or so detainees, tortured to within an inch of their lives, with all their stories to shout from every roof top.
These things need to happen, absolutely, and in the fullness of time, I think they will, but I don't blame Obama for letting "we the people" push that particular agenda. Sure, it makes him less of a hero, but who would ever HIRE a man to be a hero? Did we really hire this guy to save us from ourselves? I'll certainly take heroism where I can get it. I consider his speech in Egypt last month to be heroic, actually. But again, I can't fault an employee of mine for the heroism he doesn't--or has yet to--show.
Obama is doing a job and I don't know anyone else, who was a serious applicant for the position, who would or could be doing a better job right now. Honestly, aside from a few obvious long shots, when you look at the field of applicants, I think we're damn lucky to have Obama there right now.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by gripper:
.... I think someone summed it up better than I could ever hope to:"Any goverment big enough to give you evrything you want,is big enough to take everything you've got"...
No,I do not worship at the altar of the Leviathan State,and no;I have no trust;and little regard for the current president.
...
Screw Utopia-count me as part of the "Leave Us Alone!"coalition.
thats what im screamin
...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
And as far as applicants go, this kid Obama was by far the stand out.
i gotta disagree with you HK. if he was a stand out, its because the media glorified him as the second coming of FDR
Quote:
And I'd say he's doing alright, he's holding his own and despite what the 24 hour news cycle wants to think, it's still early days.
he's been in office 6 months, and hes tried to ram through every liberal initiative ever conceived! hes an incredibly ambitious SOB
Quote:
I never really expected him to be any more revolutionary than he already is
he has proved to be the most progressive idealogue ever to hold the office of presidency. IMO, he is a revolutionary.. only in the same league as Hugo Chavez, or any other marxist dictator
Quote:
Obama is doing a job and I don't know anyone else, who was a serious applicant for the position, who would or could be doing a better job right now. Honestly, aside from a few obvious long shots, when you look at the field of applicants, I think we're damn lucky to have Obama there right now.
oh come on HK, what about Ron Paul? theres a reason we were stuck with Obama and McCain.. because the powers that be chose them for us, to bring us inline with their agenda for global socialism. Ron Paul, the only person running to advocated low taxes, reduced spending, non-intervention, and unincumbered personal liberty, in line with the bounds of the constitution.. was marginalized and mocked, even black listed as a candidate half the time. no.. we got Obama because he is a radical leftist
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
On an individual level I agree that we are capable of good.
Collectively, we are incapable of it though. The world has yet to divise a power structure that can maintain benevolent intentions and isn't bastardized to serve the wants of a few As long as human beings run it and are part of society, it will always fail to be Utopia.
not in this age anyways my friend. sadly, itll likely culminate in a system entirely antithetical to a percieved utopia(although, itll be suggested as such). whether people will recognize it in time though, we'll have to see. but given the amount of Obama maniacs and socialist apologists out there.. its not likely to happen
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
