Obama is doing a job.
POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Thursday, July 2, 2009 13:59
VIEWED: 13329
PAGE 7 of 14
Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
I'll have to eat my words. Being an adamant supporter of Hillary Clinton. It was quite a tough pill to swallow when Obama beat her for the democratic front runner.
That being said, I admire most of his ideas. Although it may take a while to see most come to fruition. Just give him time.
It's better to have many ideas, and get half of them realized, then no ideas except for a war in Iraq.
That's because you never met him.
If you met him, it's because you were brainwashed by the pretty smile and soothing words.
He'd as soon $#!+ on you as shake your hand.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=560_1217023986
Despite the claims that this must be fake, I wrote it, so I guarantee it's true. It is, of course, my personal position only.
Recent novels by Michael Z. Williamson
CONTACT WITH CHAOS, Apr 09 from Baen Books
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Nov 07 from Baen Books
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Why the fuck did we invade Iraq???? Even BUSH knew they didn't have WMD, and they had fuck-all to do with 9.11.
Great mindless bleat. Do a little research, study a little strategy, come back, apologize and explain why these statements are irrelevant.
I posed the question on "why" in my forum. Every vet in the place could figure it out.
But if you don't, I'll be happy to enlighten you.:)
Recent novels by Michael Z. Williamson
CONTACT WITH CHAOS, Apr 09 from Baen Books
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Nov 07 from Baen Books
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com
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Quote:What "strategy" was that? To start a useless war and bleed our nation dry? And what was it FOR? To protect...who? To gain... what? The ONLY reasons we're involved in the ME are (1) oil and (2) Israel. Without oil the ME would be as interesting as Antarctica: a barren inhospitable wasteland interesting only to scientists and adventurers. And who the frak cares about Israel? Certainly not me.
Great mindless bleat. Do a little research, study a little strategy, come back, apologize and explain why these statements are irrelevant.
So Wise One, why don't you explain to ME what our "purpose" was, 'cause I'm not seeing it.
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We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy
Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy
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ODESSA I had to step away and didn't get to finish my answer, so here it is
Quote:Bull. Did the UN authorize the invasion?
Oh c'mon now - the US is predictable.
Oi, this again...The US invaded Iraq because SH refused to comply with UN mandates
No.
Did they ask US to invade?
No.
How many UN resolutions has Israel broken?
www.mediamonitors.net/michaelsladah&suleimaniajlouni1.html
Please read UN Resolution 1440 - the last resolution on Iraq and the ONLY ONE that counts (since UN Resolutions supersede each other) and point out to me where it says they wanted to invade Iraq.
www.un.org/Docs/scres/2002/sc2002.htm.
Quote:
and because he was supporting terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank...and he was harboring AQ & Taliban terrorists in Iraq
No, no, no, and no. Been disproven, admitted to by BUSH as having been wrong.
Quote:Wrong, wrong, wrong. The "world community" believed no such thing.
..and other terrorists...and because the world community had reason to believe that he had WMD's and that he might provide them to terrorist organizations.
Quote:And this is exactly WHY the USA is feared and hated around the world. Because Americans will justify ANY action, ANY number of deaths, ANY involvement in any nation anywhere, whether it posed a threat to us or not, whether there were other alternatives or not. And then you wonder why people hate us????
The US invaded Grenada because that country was going to pieces. The left-leaning government was overthrown by communists and the Prime Minister was murdered. Nobody knew what was really going on inside the country. The US had two primary goals: 1) Prevent Cuba from gaining control 2) Prevent a repeat of the Iran Hostage Crisis. Overall, the operation was a success and the nation's parlimentary constitution was re-instated.
Nuking Japan ended the war rapidly and saved American lives. There is simply no way around that. They started it, btw. Also, one has to consider the 'Pay Back' angle too. They deserved it, btw ;)
Quote:What do you think?
What point are you trying to make by referring to the size of the US nuclear arsenal?
Quote:Okinawans hate us. Have you been to our other areas of involvement? Central and South America? Pakistan? Southeast Asia? Saudi Arabia and the rest of the ME?
The US has installations across the globe at the invitation of the host countries. The overwhelming majority are happy to have Americans around. Have you been to Japan? Have you been to Germany? Italy? Kosovo? The UK? They love GI's. LMAO - The girls want to marry GI's/Marines/Sailors so they can come to America.
At some point, innocence becomes willful ignorance.
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We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy
Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy
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Wow. All kinds of strategic expertise here.
Um...Saddam offered and paid $26,000 per suicide bomber, Hamas had what was effectively an embassy in Baghdad, as did Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas. So I don't know what "proof" you can have that he didn't support them.
Two of the first things we found when we went in were Roland AA missiles from France and Germany, and German built bunkers, and scads of new former Soviet equipment Russia sold him.
The Useless Nations objected to us going in because they knew we'd figure out they were on the take.
Then there was the corruption over the oil for food--seems everyone except the Iraqi people benefited, including Annan's relatives. Funny, that.
So a UN mandate is worthless. They're whores.
Incidentally, France is operating in Cote d'Ivoire and a few other places with no UN mandate, if that matters to you.
And my base had Americans, Brits, Aussies, Koreans, even the Japanese, Georgians, occasional others, and the Canadians used us as a waypoint, so regardless of any stupid "mandate," the civilized world is pretty much all on board. We don't have the French, but that's like swimming without a bicycle.
That's just to stop the other quotes you're borrowing from various sources.
Now, let's discuss strategy.
We were attacked by al Qaida, a diffuse, international network. They were operating from Afghanistan for ideological support from the Taliban, and because it's the ass end of nowhere.
Asscrackistan, as some of us call it, took a million casualties fighting the Soviets, and the Soviets only lost 15,000 men, but gave up. The Brits spent a century trying to pacify it. No luck. We have to go all the way back to Alexander the Great to find a successful conquest. If you fight them, you have to fight a close up infantry battle on their home mountainous terrain, with very minimal air support, crappy logistics, almost non-existent artillery, no armor. The Marines brought back the MULE PACKER specialty, it's so rugged.
Rule 1: Do not fight the enemy on his chosen ground, especially when it sucks.
So, if we're not going to fight them there, and we're not going to fight them here, and France would object to fighting them there, and Africa would be about as bad, and we can't get them to Antarctica, and Russia doesn't want to host the party...that sort of leaves the Middle East. Not ideal, but it's terrain we DO know, have every square inch dialed into GPS, and have allies.
The airbases in Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and formerly Saudi Arabia are FREE. I can't begin to describe how much Kuwaitis HATE Iraqis, and they all fear Iran, so we get free bases, free fuel, free food, free water, free electrical power, and pretty safe environments to operate from.
This caused half the crazies to leave Asscrackistan, and show up where we could stomp them. The Press screamed and wet their pants and followed along to get photos of fresh blood, because they're whores, too. (The check on this is that while I was deployed, CNN had, "AFGHANISTAN: THE FORGOTTEN WAR." I assure you, the military has not forgotten Afghanistan. What they meant was they didn't have enough blood to make headlines.) This allowed the special ops people (many of whom train at my wife's duty station, http://www.mutc.in.ng.mil, and I can't say much more than that) to sneak around, help the locals with food and veterinary support, and dig for info quietly. You might recall that after the first couple of bombing missions, it got very quiet--because you DON'T start trouble with the Pashtun if you don't have to. It heated up again a few months ago, because it took almost 8 years to make friends and earn trust and find out where the scumbags were.
We took down Saddam, who was an existing pain in our ass, and handed him over to his peasants to be hanged on youtube. This was a lesson to every other asshole in the region.
We took down THE MOST POWERFUL MUSLIM MILITARY in two weeks. This was also an object lesson.
We now have bases in Iraq, Afghanistan, oh, and a bunch we built in the 'stan
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Oh, yeah--and 0bama went from "bringing the troops home in 60 days" to "six months" to "within 18 months after the generals say it's safe," to "as long as it continues to improve."
He started a lot of this the afternoon after he got his NSA brief.
It seems they made him realize he wasn't quite as smart as he thought he was, on the subject of military strategy.
I'd recommend googling the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Recent novels by Michael Z. Williamson
CONTACT WITH CHAOS, Apr 09 from Baen Books
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Nov 07 from Baen Books
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So Wise One, why don't you explain to ME what our "purpose" was, 'cause I'm not seeing it.
I did that earlier:
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Oil. That's right folks, lets point out that big black Elephant in the sand right now. Iraq has one of the largest Oil reserves in the World, anything to do with Iraq at some point comes down to Oil, from the first Gulf War, to the Oil for Food scandal, to the recent Iraq War.
Rebuilding Contracts. There's a reason that rebuilding contracts are not awarded to the lowest bidder, rather only the American corporations that had ties to the Bush Administration.
Airstrip 2. Nothing like a big subservient puppet country slap bang in the middle of the Middle East (aka Oil Well One) for your military invasion staging needs. Plus it borders Iran and Syria, Targets one and two respectively.
Family Feud. That bugger Saddam out lasted pappy Bush in office, that there's makin' a monkey outta da Bush's! Vendetta!
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State of the Union Address: George W. Bush promotes view that Saddam Hussein had connections to the 9-11 attack.
Quote:
We also must never forget the most vivid events of recent history. On 11 September, 2001, America felt its vulnerability - even to threats that gather on the other side of the earth. We resolved then, and we are resolved today, to confront every threat, from any source, that could bring sudden terror and suffering to America.
George W. Bush, television address, September 2002:
Quote:
We've learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases. And we know that after 11 September, Saddam Hussein's regime gleefully celebrated the terrorist attacks on America.
George W. Bush does not mention Hamas, but Al-Qaeda, who later were admitted to have no connection to Saddam Hussein. Broadening our statement for war in Iraq to terrorism in general because the facts don't fit doesn't make those initial "facts" less false.
Hamas is a legitimately elected government, so of course Baghdad had an embassy. Furthermore, having an embassy of a government in your country is not a statement of support for the government of the embassy in question.
If military types are such experts in war and on history, then they need to stop supporting the mistruths and the fascists that undermine our diplomatic and military efforts and poison the supposedly clueless population.
This same population has contributed volunteers to your military process, and it is those soldiers who do the dirty work of fighting the wars of rich men. Your volunteers thought they were signing up to protect that SAME population that contributed them, not the bloated heartless authoritarian government that uses and abuses them.
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The way out of using oil as an excuse?
LET US DRILL ON OUR OWN LAND FOR THE STUPID STUFF!!!!!!!
Yeah, yeah . . . I know. Our potential oil reserves don't equal a fraction of the Middle East . . . but SO FREAKIN' WHAT? Don't really mean to yell... it just frustrates me, nothing against you directly, Citizen. The main way to lessen our dependence on foreign oil is to DRILL, DRILL, DRILL. From what I understand we are the only country that prohibits itself from acquiring our own resources! Silly, silly Americans.
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"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeWilliamson:
Incidentally, the causes of this war are indirectly traceable to 1948, and Carter and Clinton both failed to respond vigorously enough.
Surely you mean 1947, when the British post-Anglo-Iraq War occupation ended, or 1958 after the coup d'etat. If you're going back that far, why not do it properly and go back to the fall of the Ottoman Empire post World War One, or even better the beginning of Ottoman control in, what 1534?
Quote:
Originally posted by MikeWilliamson:
(And please don't repeat the BS about us selling weapons to Iraq. We stopped that in 1968, which is to say, when the Ba'athists took over, and we gave them VERY SANITIZED satellite photos to use against Iran in the 80s. All the weaponry I encountered was RUSSIAN, with the exception of a few relics left over from the Aden Protectorate and the Ottoman Empire.)
Your personal experiences on that matter prove, well nothing. Saying the US and other western nations never sold Saddam weapons is a fairy tale. Weapons sales stopped in the late eighties, which was over twenty years ago. Even if all you saw was Russian equipment, that doesn't prove equipment wasn't bought from the US earlier.
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