Obama is doing a job.

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Thursday, July 2, 2009 13:59
VIEWED: 13329
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FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:18 AM

Part of it is also that there's a coupla folk in the State Dept still holding a grudge over the USS Pueblo and looking for an excuse to return the favor.

Of course, what *I* would do in the situation would be stop the ship, NOT search it, and give them an actual branch from an olive tree with instructions to put it directly in the hand of Kim Jong himself.

Show em in no uncertain terms that while we COULD be dicks, we'd rather talk peace, and in a manner that will take a lot of wind right out of his sails quite publicly.

I favor Malcom Reynolds diplomacy - give em every chance to do the right thing, and if they don't ?
Shoot their horse and take their money!

-F

BYTEMITE

Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Odessa762:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
I understand that the reason is that a missle might just be pointed right at Hawaii, so we're really the only ones threatened.

I'm curious; how many missiles do you suppose WE have pointed at THEM? Do you think THEY might feel "threatened", too?

The difference is 'WE' are predictable while 'THEY' are not. That NK boss is kinda crazy, man. Who know's what 'THEY' will do? On the other hand, everybody knows that 'WE' won't do anything without being provolked by 'THEM' first.

[*snip*]

Hmm. I'm not too sure about that. I think our leaders very good at manufacturing reasons to spoon feed our public.

Anyway. I too voted for Obama. Happy sparkles faded about six days in, when bombs went off in Pakistan. He's pretty much been on my "Go to hell, you pawn of the corporate military industrial globalists" list ever since.

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:52 AM

We're as safe and predictable as an 800-lb gorilla that goes on a rampage every once in a while for no apparent reason.

Why the fuck did we invade Iraq???? Even BUSH knew they didn't have WMD, and they had fuck-all to do with 9.11. Why invade Grenada??? Just to take our minds offa Beirut? Don't forget, WE were the first and only ones to use nuclear weapons. We are the ones with 800 military installations all over the world, not Kim. Sure, Kim is crazy. But every now and again, we have our loons in office too. And WE have 30,000 nuclear warheads. If you want to see how safe we are, just read my tagline. Some of our fearless leaders feel compelled to appeal to their "blithering idiot" constituency.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

ODESSA762

Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:05 AM

Oh c'mon now - the US is predictable.

Oi, this again...The US invaded Iraq because SH refused to comply with UN mandates...and because he was supporting terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank...and he was harboring AQ & Taliban terrorists in Iraq...and other terrorists...and because the world community had reason to believe that he had WMD's and that he might provide them to terrorist organizations.

The US invaded Grenada because that country was going to pieces. The left-leaning government was overthrown by communists and the Prime Minister was murdered. Nobody knew what was really going on inside the country. The US had two primary goals: 1) Prevent Cuba from gaining control 2) Prevent a repeat of the Iran Hostage Crisis. Overall, the operation was a success and the nation's parlimentary constitution was re-instated.

Nuking Japan ended the war rapidly and saved American lives. There is simply no way around that. They started it, btw. Also, one has to consider the 'Pay Back' angle too. They deserved it, btw ;)

What point are you trying to make by referring to the size of the US nuclear arsenal?

The US has installations across the globe at the invitation of the host countries. The overwhelming majority are happy to have Americans around. Have you been to Japan? Have you been to Germany? Italy? Kosovo? The UK? They love GI's. LMAO - The girls want to marry GI's/Marines/Sailors so they can come to America.

This has gotten waaayyyy off topic, apologies to the OP.

CITIZEN

Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Odessa762:
Oh c'mon now - the US is predictable.

It is. I predict the US will demand, possibly at the point of a gun, that everyone adhere to International Law, while flaunting said laws itself. You know, just like the last half century.

Quote:
Originally posted by Odessa762:
Oi, this again...The US invaded Iraq because SH refused to comply with UN mandates

If that were true the US still had no right to invade without a UNSC mandate. The failure to comply with resolutions was one of the excuses, not the reason, for the invasion. An excuse, I might add, that at the time the powers that be decided wasn't good enough to invade, so they concocted this overblown farce about Weapons of Mass Destruction, and Saddam's ability to destroy the universe in 45 Seconds. The reasons for the War are numerous though, perhaps we can break them down here:

Oil. That's right folks, lets point out that big black Elephant in the sand right now. Iraq has one of the largest Oil reserves in the World, anything to do with Iraq at some point comes down to Oil, from the first Gulf War, to the Oil for Food scandal, to the recent Iraq War.

Rebuilding Contracts. There's a reason that rebuilding contracts are not awarded to the lowest bidder, rather only the American corporations that had ties to the Bush Administration.

Airstrip 2. Nothing like a big subservient puppet country slap bang in the middle of the Middle East (aka Oil Well One) for your military invasion staging needs. Plus it borders Iran and Syria, Targets one and two respectively.

Family Feud. That bugger Saddam out lasted pappy Bush in office, that there's makin' a monkey outta da Bush's! Vendetta!

Quote:
Originally posted by Odessa762:
...and because he was supporting terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank...

Well yeah, that's America's job. That bastard was muscling in on the US racket.

Quote:
Originally posted by Odessa762:
and he was harboring AQ & Taliban terrorists in Iraq...and other terrorists...

No he didn't. There's more terrorists in Iraq now than there ever were under Saddam. Saddam was a secular leader, if Osama Bin Laden hated anyone more than the US, he hated Saddam's Iraq. There's no evidence of actual links between Iraq and Al Qaeda, because there weren't any. It's just some bullshit lie that somebody made up, and a bunch of other people have kept repeating in the hopes that it'll magically become true.

Quote:
Originally posted by Odessa762:
and because the world community had reason to believe that he had WMD's and that he might provide them to terrorist organizations.

Well apparently the 'World Community' didn't actually have enough evidence for that, which is why the UNSC voted NO on invading Iraq.

Quote:
Originally posted by Odessa762:
Nuking Japan ended the war rapidly and saved American lives. There is simply no way around that. They started it, btw. Also, one has to consider the 'Pay Back' angle too. They deserved it, btw ;)

They started it is a valid excuse is it? America really started the recent Iraq war, so if Saddam did have WMDs strapped to ICBMs, and parked one in the middle of Central park or next to the Washington monument, you'd be cool with that, since like the US did start it after all?

There's lots of reasons for the Nuclear attacks on Japan in World War 2. Personal I find the "it saved lives" one the most revisionist and tenuous of the lot. It starts to look even more tenuous when you realise that certain clauses were removed from the Potsdam Declaration prior to the attacks, clauses that American experts on Japan flatly said were deal breakers, that Japan couldn't surrender without.

You're spot on with the revenge thing though, but how that's a valid defence for the use of nuclear weapons is where you lose me.

There's a number of reasons, finding out what nuclear weapons actually do in the field was way up there. It's actually effect on a real city and its population. Getting Japan out of the war b

RIPWASH

Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:57 PM

Okay folks. Let's get back on track just a tiny bit. Bush is gone. This is Obama's show now. Like it or not. Let's not go down the tired path of proving or disproving why we are and/or shouldn't be in Iraq.

My whole point is that if the UN has sanctioned this "shadow and boarding if necessary" of the NK ship, why not appoint ANOTHER country to shadow and board if necessary? Right now, NK is saying that if we interfere with this ship, it will be an act of war. They would consider it an action by us as if we were acting alone. Would it be the same situation if, say, Russia or the UK was shadowing? Would Russia or the UK be under those same threats?

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

CITIZEN

Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
My whole point is that if the UN has sanctioned this "shadow and boarding if necessary" of the NK ship, why not appoint ANOTHER country to shadow and board if necessary?

Because that's not what the US wants. The UN is rubber stamping an action the US wants to take and would most likely take regardless. Basically both the UN and the US wants the ship searched, but the US wants to do the searching.

RIPWASH

Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
My whole point is that if the UN has sanctioned this "shadow and boarding if necessary" of the NK ship, why not appoint ANOTHER country to shadow and board if necessary?

Because that's not what the US wants. The UN is rubber stamping an action the US wants to take and would most likely take regardless. Basically both the UN and the US wants the ship searched, but the US wants to do the searching.

I just think that's kinda stupid. And I'd say that now matter who was runnin' the country. I mean really . . . . we're stretched pretty thin as it is and now we wanna provoke another country on purpose? Yeah . . . real smart.

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:29 PM

Quote:
Oh c'mon now - the US is predictable.

Yes, we are. Just google US +invades and see what pops up: Afghanistan, Iraq (twice), Panama, Grenada. And that was just in the last 20 years and doesn't include Vietnam and Cambodia. Also Mexico, and the Dominican Republic. Our special ops to install or prop up dictators in Chile, Guatemala, Argentina, Brazil... well, ALL of the countries of South and Central America except Costa Rica... out latest special ops in Venezuela, to ensure the future of capitali... er I mean democracy. Iran, Indonesia (Kissinger provided Suharto with the guns to kill over 200,000 East Timorese.) Iraq, Philippines...

I believe you are speaking out of a vast innocence. But with the advent of the internet, innocence is now ignorance. Do some research. learn some history. The US has stuck its nose in over a hundred nations, and NOT to their benefit.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

KWICKO

Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
We're as safe and predictable as an 800-lb gorilla that goes on a rampage every once in a while for no apparent reason.

Why the fuck did we invade Iraq???? Even BUSH knew they didn't have WMD, and they had fuck-all to do with 9.11. Why invade Grenada??? Just to take our minds offa Beirut? Don't forget, WE were the first and only ones to use nuclear weapons. We are the ones with 800 military installations all over the world, not Kim. Sure, Kim is crazy. But every now and again, we have our loons in office too. And WE have 30,000 nuclear warheads. If you want to see how safe we are, just read my tagline. Some of our fearless leaders feel compelled to appeal to their "blithering idiot" constituency.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

Signy, you left out our invasion of Panama, which really should have been named "Operation Just Because".

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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