Is it wrong to be Pro- Alliance ?

POSTED BY: Booksword
UPDATED: Sunday, March 28, 2010 01:34
VIEWED: 35713
PAGE 9 of 10

Quote:

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Originally posted by rallem:

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I think to the Alliance a risk on their investment is if a world's terra forming doesn't take. If the Settlers get frisky they have a military to take care of that. I bet the Settlers had to sign some sort of contract stating their servitude or citizenship.

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Well... maybe. But it's more speculation than is strictly necessary, although not without historical precedence.

As was pointed out previously, it was called the Unification War, not the Pacification War, which one could expect if the Alliance had been subjigating unruly colonies. I'm not sure how canon it was, but I do seem to remember reading something along the lines that the Central Planets pretty much preemptively sought to bring "peace and enlightenment" to the outer worlds.

Not unlike Imperial Rome. I'm sure that they thought they were doing the right thing, and I say that in all seriousness and without sarcasm. But sometimes it's just best to let folk go their own way and do as they will.

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That's the thing isn't it.

The Outer Rim wanted to govern themselves. Why would'nt they want that. However the Alliance wanted to bring one order.

The fact of the matter is I view the Unification war as needed to keep that order. Can you imagine if each and every Colony out there decided to govern themselves.

All those worlds with their own rules and goverment.

Anarky.

As I stated before it would be a matter of time before war, domination. World A with more ships decides that that World B should provide them supplies and crop.

They have the strength so they have the right.

World C can't stand World D and their ways. Just rubs them wrong. They have the means so they should just wipe them out.

If the Browncoats won the war what would they have won.

The right to turn on themselves. We would like to think their better nature would win out but as in Safe and Out of Gas the outer Rim is not filled to the brim with lovable saints and good down to earth people.

The Alliance are facist, the Alliance dominate others. The Alliannce are idiots that decide to use PAX as a weopen to enforce peace.

But are they the lesser of two evils.

I tend to think so.

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Sword, you don't KNOW that though. And the way they behaved, without so much as ever co-operating before in their existance, the 'colonies' lasted 5 whole years before they were defeated. Sure it was probably like the confederacy of the American civil war - where a few regiments wouldn't leave their state because they thought they would just keep the union from entering there and that was it.

They lost because they weren't wholey unified.

The alliance didn't use pax as a weapon. They were experimenting. Because a few people with IN the alliance, wanted to make people better.

There were probably people in the independence too who thought the same thing could be done.

There are two ideollogies here, Independence, and Unification. A loose confederacy would not mean A can attack B and so on. Because if A attacked B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I and M (J and K were too busy making illegal fight club suggestions at the time) would come over, and kick A's ass.

THAT is the idea behind the UN, NATO, The allies, the Axis, any great 'alliance'.

The Alliance didn't want there to be another superpower. Didn't want to have to compete. Thats what it looked like was going to happen the way the Independent planets were behaving before the war. It looked like, maybe, just maybe, in a few dozen years... they would form an alliance of their own.

And that would not be pleasent for the folk in the Alliance top brass. That would mean, less taxes rolling in. Having to compete for fuel, ship yards, everything else they've been taking advantage of for decades.. ESPECIALLY.. land.

As a whole, the entire core barely makes up a 1/5th of the planets according that recently canon map and information resource released recently.

On a tactical stand point, they fought when they did, because the Alliance needed to stop the 'disease' before it grew out of control, and formed it's own soverign nations.

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I get why the Alliance did why they did.

I tend to think its better they did.

I really don't think that the Independents would have formed one central goverment like the Alliance because of who they where.

They tended to want to think for themselves as free thinkers should be able to do.

However all those voices and opinions disagreeing on how things are run.

Makes me think of a small Island with a lot of tribes.

Doesn't end well.

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The United states of America, did not start off as the United States. It started off as a Confederacy. A loosely bound group.

Even now, though there is one big president and stuff like that - there are still state elected governors. And, most states hold in their constitution, the right to succeed from the 'union' at any time or place. For example, Arizona does.

The way things were progressing, is that with a unified enemy, the alliance, it would pave a way from more unified actions. Such as a loose agreement between planets to keep from blowing each other out of space. Probably upheld by a council or some such.

As for the analogy of the many different tribes on an island, hate to break it to you but thats exactly what the alliance did. Only China and America remain. Everyone else just kind of succumbed to them.

Some of the stories from the Serenity RPG include one with the lost arks of cibolla, meaning the spanish government had also released several arks and they were destroyed BY the Alliance.. technically.

Then again, speculation and heresay.

The whole thing is, the independence didn't win. The Alliance did. But now that they goofed and the Miranda incident was exposed a NEW independent movement would be bound to spring up (some speculate Whitefall as the beginning) and this time, even more unified. And after it's incredible losses and probably loss of major support thanks to the Miranda files, yeah. The Alliance would probably give way to some other sort of group.

Because, really, thats human nature. Survival. And surviving usually means pooling resources. Thats how the states got founded in the first place. It was nothing but a rabble assortment of colonies, then unified... they ended up getting their independence, together.

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I really don't see Miranda inspiring a new Independent movement.

The war was lost, the fire has gone. Things have settled down in the Verse.

Can't see anyone looking to start a ruckus. People gotten comfortable with the way things are. Mal seems to have settled with that and I suspect the rest of the verse has as well.

Still, now the Alliance will be affected. Too long those in the Core worlds have been a little too arrogant a little too pridefull.

Now they are going to have to open their eyes up and learn that they are not better or perfect. That the outerworlds are not the only flawed and savage beings out there.

I get your aguements but tend to disagree with them.

Doesn't make em wrong.

Or right.

Which is the fun part of discussions.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Booksword:
I really don't see Miranda inspiring a new Independent movement.

The war was lost, the fire has gone. Things have settled down in the Verse.

Can't see anyone looking to start a ruckus. People gotten comfortable with the way things are. Mal seems to have settled with that and I suspect the rest of the verse has as well.

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I think it might, heavy on the might. Remember, th war has only been over around 6 or so years. Lots of bad blood still about I'd imagine. Would be pretty easy to kick up a fuss.

And given that the Alliance were arrogant, they might not have been all that quick to improve the outer worlds, so people might not have seen enough of a change to quietly accept the yoke of the very same people who created their worst nightmares.

But it's all speculative at this point.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Joss Wheden is pro-Alliance, I suspect; don’t know why you shouldn’t be, if you want. In interviews he has described the Alliance as “progressive.” A term that, coming form a diehard social and political Liberal like Joss, generally doesn’t mean “bad.”

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Whereas for me, "progressive" is not only dishonest but justification for a revolution.

It takes all types.

Recent novels by Michael Z. Williamson
CONTACT WITH CHAOS, Apr 09 from Baen Books
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Nov 07 from Baen Books

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