Is it wrong to be Pro- Alliance ?
POSTED BY: Booksword
UPDATED: Sunday, March 28, 2010 01:34
VIEWED: 35713
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I´d like to stay out of that discussion, but...
OK. To me there´s an analogy between the Alliance and the actual U.S. government, obviously. You folks might know better, but there´s also a lot of discussion going on about the republican government cutting down a whole lot of “freedom rights”, mostly because of the 9/11 incident.
We had this discussion in Germany as well, because you have no choice but to deal with the dangers and threaths that international terrorism nowadays poses. Thank god, we haven´t been attacked (yet). But one answer in Germany to the question, how to deal with it, always was, that this kind of terrorism, the free world faced on 9/11 (and still is facing) is always and foremost AGAINST every form of freedom, therefore cutting those rights by yourself is definitely the wrong way, because you´re doing exactly what hose terrorists want. We should be proud of being free, even if it makes us vulnerable. I strongly believe in that.
Actually the U.S. government is doing a lot of that stuff, in order to protect their citizens, The problem is, that you´re always in danger of leaving the narrow path of democrazy. I my eyes, the Alliance in Firefly already took that step too far and is now on the brink of becoming a dictatorship. All they wanted was “building better worlds”, but they screwed it up, somehow. The movie shows that clearly.
Don´t get me wrong on this. The Alliance is not the U.S., but it´s something the U.S. might become in a not sop far future, when you´re not paying attention...
At least, that´s my understanding. Look at the operative. He´s not an evil person, he´s just doing evil things for the sake of the good. And those Reaver-Jerks? I don´t have to tell you, what THEY look like, do I ?!
Blue Sun is just a symbol for those global operating companies, who are so mighty, that they just give a s…. about freedom, politics or anything else. We can all name these companies (starting with Fox ?!).
A.
One day.
One mission.
One army of Browncoats.
On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave!
http://www.fireflyday.com/
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Joss Wheden is pro-Alliance, I suspect; don’t know why you shouldn’t be, if you want. In interviews he has described the Alliance as “progressive.” A term that, coming form a diehard social and political Liberal like Joss, generally doesn’t mean “bad.” And he has described Mal as someone he doesn’t agree with. The story of Firefly is really a much more complicated story, politically, then I think many people give it credit for.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Joss Wheden is pro-Alliance, I suspect; don’t know why you shouldn’t be, if you want. In interviews he has described the Alliance as “progressive.”
Well, we should exchange our interviews. I read an interview, in which Joss said, the Alliance is something, that has recently been (re-)elected for the 2nd time in his country. I don´t know. Maybe he was talking about the World Wildlife Fund
. Make of it what you like. Quote:
A term that, coming form a diehard social and political Liberal like Joss, generally doesn’t mean “bad.”
As far as i know, Joss is not liberal. He describes himself as "left" and sometimes as "radical". The latter being quite the opposite of "liberal".
Quote:
The story of Firefly is really a much more complicated story, politically, then I think many people give it credit for.
Well, that´s most definitely the case, I think movies are always best,when there´s enough room left, to have your own thougths and interpretations about it. Joss himself said, that a lot of conservatives actually do like the movie. Which is good, because we need every browncoat we can possibly have. Browncoats unite!
A.
One day.
One mission.
One army of Browncoats.
On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave!
http://www.fireflyday.com/
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Hmmmm aren't the alliance dressed in grey Nazi SS like uniform....they send killers out to track down people who can be used as secret weapons.....and they experiment on a world wide scale forms of population control!!! How much more 'bad guy' like do you want? What good have they done exactly?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Barticus:
What good have they done exactly?
No doubt the alliance is at least partly responsable for the technogally that allowed man to leave earth-that-was in the first place. They do good, just not for some.
to quote Shephard Book "A government is merely a body of men, usually noticably ungoverned."
We can't say wether the alliance itself is good or bad. There are good people in it, there are bad people in it, and there are those who just don't give a damn. Just like there is in the rest of the 'verse. It's just, you give someone power, and suddenly everything about them flashes right to the surface for all the world to see.
The alliance is nither a benovolent utopian government (obviously) or an evil empire (Operative quote anyone?) it's just there. It's what is.
As for if it's a good thing they won the war or not... it all depends really. I mean, lots of our characters may have been short-term better off. But what would have happened? Ither absoloute chaos...or a unification, into a single government...
which over the decades would just cause the cycle to repeat.
My step-brother half-recited a speach given by the villian of "Gundam Wing, Endless Waltz" (which I've only seen part of) I don't remember it terrablly clearly, and I've buffered what I remember with my own stuff as I agree with the basic logic.
There are three stages. War, Peace, Revoloution. A war ends, peace comes, then someone dosen't like the new order. Someone rebels. A war comes, a new government takes hold, peace follows. Soon, someone dosen't like it, and they rebel. War, Peace, Revoloution. The three steps in an endless waltz.
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To lighten up the mood a bit...
If there were no Alliance, who exactly would our BDH's thumb their noses at? I'm sure Mal could pick a fight at some bar on a tiny little moon somewhere without the Unification slant, but it wouldn't be as satisfying, would it?
Remember, this post was just to bring a smile.
One day.
One mission.
One army of Browncoats.
On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.
http://serenityjune23rd.com/
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
To lighten up the mood a bit...
If there were no Alliance, who exactly would our BDH's thumb their noses at? I'm sure Mal could pick a fight at some bar on a tiny little moon somewhere without the Unification slant, but it wouldn't be as satisfying, would it?
Remember, this post was just to bring a smile.
One day.
One mission.
One army of Browncoats.
On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.
http://serenityjune23rd.com/
Shakes his head and smiles in admiration.
I would like to believe that if the Independents where in charge their better angels would guide them to be a better and more Democratic goverment.
But I believe in two things.
Necessity demands, what is needed equals action taken. You have billions of people out there, there must be checks and balances. If you are any government to maintain stablity you must sacrifice honor, morality to reach this goal.
We live in First World countries, in theory we could give billions of dollars and resources to maintain and upgrade Third World contries.
But that tips the balance, The Alliance maintains order. They screw over the outer worlds but they manage it.
We can scream individual rights, we can even think that the Independents would do a better job. But do you think if Blue Sun offered the Independents a morally dubious way to win the war wouldnt they take it.
If Blue Sun thought that the Browncoats where more of an Advantage then the Alliance they may have. Logicaly the Independent command would take it because one of the first doctrines of War is to Win.
Also Independent worlds would eventually prey off each other. The world with most ships or manpower would take over those without. Might makes right.
Hell, any world that did not actively support the Independents would be fair game. To the victor the spoils.
We like Order, we like power to our homes and fresh produce in our stores.
The Alliance provides this, they provide a system of trade. Proberly corrupt but workable, a system of law that exist if not flawed.
Much like our world come to think of it.
To me they are no better Angels of our nature just Demons and lesser Demons.
I under stand the Alliance and I respect the Browncoats.
But Necessity demands and we obey.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I trust people to be people. Everything else is fair game.
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Joss has said on more than one occasion that the Alliance is not at all unlike the US.. that it could be both a force for good and evil.. I believe his example was Viet Nam.. "But Mal can't see the good, because he's VietNamese."
Freedom is messy. Freedom means other people doing things you don't like, and it means people die because no one makes them wear seatbelts or helmets or not take addictive drugs. It means some folks don't have food or medicine or shelter because no one takes money from those who do have those things to play philanthropist.
Lots of folks don't like freedom. Even more don't want other people to have some freedom or another.
And that's as much as I'm gonna say about that.
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Yes, it is wrong. It is very wrong. And what's more, you're a bad person for thinking it. In fact, you're not really a Browncoat. You're not even a Beigecoat! You're . . .I don't even know the words for you but you'll certainly be in the anti-Christ's legion for thinking such a thing! 
Nah, it's shiny. The Alliance is flawed, but it does seem to have its positive aspects as well. We also do get the show from Mal's PoV for the most part and he ain't got no love for it, so our view is a little skewed*. And from a "Hey, guys, this is a TV show" it's a grand creation because it's REALISTIC. There are no utopian governments (just look at the root latin)and it's nice to see a non-Utopian government that still isn't the Evil Empire of Star Wars (not that I didn't enjoy the hell out of that story).
That's a good question about the nature of the Independents - did they want to form a confederacy of their own should they have won? Or did they all want to do their own thing as individual planets?
* Yes, they cut River's brain in Serenity, but in Firefly it was probably Blue Sun doing the cutting. I'm more into the "evil business" than "evil government" theme because I find it more relevant to our world situation as of now.
One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.
On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.
http://www.serenityday.org/
Little or no free time, but want to help?
Help Spread the Signal: http://www.geocities.com/browncoatsignalcorps
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I think that from a modern view we regard the Roman Empire as a positive influence but of course things might not have looked so clear cut to a Gaul with a Legion bearing down on him & his.
Good and bad is rarely as clear cut in History as it is on tv, and it is to Joss's credit that the alliance reflects this ambiguity in viewpoint.
I fully believe that Joss is also exploring the contemporary parellels with Iraq and a " Do the ends justify the means ?" moral conundrum about exporting "Progressiveness". See the Special Features on the BDM DVD for Joss's comments.
"We are all Mirandans today"
3 full mags and my swinging cod
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