450 posts IS a worse crime than wanting to kill us .
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, May 22, 2009 14:59
VIEWED: 29463
PAGE 22 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I also notice how he utterly fails to identify "the Arab race" he keeps referring to. Anyone who doesn't like the U.S. is his version of "Arab", I guess. But he can tell a "Seikh" from a Berber. Whatever a Seikh is...
When I say Arab I mean Arab. When I say Seikh, I mean Seikh (btw, they wear turbans, carry big assed knives, and, like the Indo-Iranians of Pakistan are a ethnic group on the Indian subcontinent, nice folks, we have a fairly large group here in Cleveland area, I'll tell my neighbor Harjot you said hello and think he's an Arab...I don't think he'll kill you on sight, but he could, he's a big guy, makes a mean BBQ sauce).
Apparently you think any Muslim with brown skin living from Morrocco to Pakistan is an Arab.
Do you also have trouble telling an Irishman for an Italian? Do you have difficulty explaining to your Welsh friends why they are English? Perhaps you see all those black folks and say "African" ignoring the fellas from the Outback of Australia or the half-white Hawaiian sitting in the Oval Office.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
RIP
"Are you calling ALL Republicans or Conservatives 'extreme Right-Wing'?"
No. But the moderate republicans and conservatives are leaving the party in droves, and leaving it to the (imho) nut-jobs. With Limbaugh as the defacto party leader, and people like Rap, Hero and Geezer as the remaining faithful, the party itself is losing the last of its credibility as anything but a fringe element. And when I look at what ties them all together, it is racism and hate.
That's a very poor conclusion to arrive at, something akin to what one of the Left's own "nut-jobs" Jeanine Garafolo said last week. It's extremely sanctimonious, absurdly condescending, and offensively biased. Rush Limbaugh is a radio show host, nothing more, nothing less. If anything, his recent rant about the "racist" Obama/Pirate incident has marginalized his views forever. There are serious people in the Republican Party, but there is no effective organization at this point. GW Bush and his Republican-controlled Congress for six years managed to undo everything that attracted me to the Party originally in the 1990's. But that still doesn't give me any reason to switch parties. And...
I can be against Obama's policies and NOT be a racist.
I can be against homosexual marriage and NOT be a homophobe.
I can be against un-checked illegal immigration and NOT be a racist/zenophobe.
I can be against Muslim Jihadism and NOT be a genocidal murderer. etc. etc. etc...
So please give some of us the benefit of the doubt in regards to our opinions and motives. If not, you make the same mistakes that Karl Rove made during his reign of secrecy in the White House. He determined it was not in the best interests of the Admin. to communicate to the country, or even explain what the fuck was going on. He vastly under-estimated the intelligence of the American people, and if you, Rue, and others do the same by marginalizing what others believe, then your current high crest of Liberalism that you're on the verge of attaining may disappear and be dismantled right before your eyes in a very short time.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I also notice how he utterly fails to identify "the Arab race" he keeps referring to. Anyone who doesn't like the U.S. is his version of "Arab", I guess. But he can tell a "Seikh" from a Berber. Whatever a Seikh is...
When I say Arab I mean Arab. When I say Seikh, I mean Seikh (btw, they wear turbans, carry big assed knives, and, like the Indo-Iranians of Pakistan are a ethnic group on the Indian subcontinent, nice folks, we have a fairly large group here in Cleveland area, I'll tell my neighbor Harjot you said hello and think he's an Arab...I don't think he'll kill you on sight, but he could, he's a big guy, makes a mean BBQ sauce).
Apparently you think any Muslim with brown skin living from Morrocco to Pakistan is an Arab.
Do you also have trouble telling an Irishman for an Italian? Do you have difficulty explaining to your Welsh friends why they are English? Perhaps you see all those black folks and say "African" ignoring the fellas from the Outback of Australia or the half-white Hawaiian sitting in the Oval Office.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
Are you talking about a "Sikh"? Yeah, those guys are Sikh, not Seikh. As for your neighbor, good for him, tell him I said "Hi". And I'm bigger than he is, by the way, but thanks for trying to threaten me like a child, by saying you'll have your neighbor beat me up.
And I wasn't the one who stated that "the Arab race" wants to wipe us from the face of the Earth in nuclear fire. You say "the Arab race" means Arab. From Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia wants to wipe us off the face of the earth?
YOU are the one who besmirched an entire race of people, not I. And now you've besmirched the country of Saudi Arabia. All *I* did was ask for clarification as to who you were talking about when you made the claim that "the ARAB RACE" wants to wipe us out. You've never made that clear.
I asked who you were accusing of wanting to wipe us off the face of the planet, and you've been backpedaling and sidestepping ever since, and trying to play the faux racist card against me.
Let's go back in recent history a bit. YOU were the one who claimed that "camel jockey" wasn't a racist term. YOU were the one who also claimed that Jap or Chink weren't racist, because they're referring to a person's nationality, not their race. And now you want to try to call me racist for asking who you are referring to when YOU claim that THE ENTIRE "ARAB RACE" AND EVERYONE IN IT WANTS TO KILL EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA!
Man, you have got to be the single worst lawyer I've ever spoken with. I guess that's why you're a civil servant - maybe you're right; maybe the government really does hire the worst of the worst. It would explain your career...
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Aren't they the same ones who said Saddam had WMD, though? And by your own admission, that was a fraud. How many times do you think we'll let you try to pull the wool over our eyes?
The fraud was committed by Saddam Hussein.
And GWB fell for it hook, line, and invasion.
You're not helping your hero's case by painting him out to be even more of an idiot than we already know him to be.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
RIP
"Are you calling ALL Republicans or Conservatives 'extreme Right-Wing'?"
No. But the moderate republicans and conservatives are leaving the party in droves, and leaving it to the (imho) nut-jobs. With Limbaugh as the defacto party leader, and people like Rap, Hero and Geezer as the remaining faithful, the party itself is losing the last of its credibility as anything but a fringe element. And when I look at what ties them all together, it is racism and hate.
That's a very poor conclusion to arrive at, something akin to what one of the Left's own "nut-jobs" Jeanine Garafolo said last week. It's extremely sanctimonious, absurdly condescending, and offensively biased. Rush Limbaugh is a radio show host, nothing more, nothing less. If anything, his recent rant about the "racist" Obama/Pirate incident has marginalized his views forever. There are serious people in the Republican Party, but there is no effective organization at this point. GW Bush and his Republican-controlled Congress for six years managed to undo everything that attracted me to the Party originally in the 1990's. But that still doesn't give me any reason to switch parties. And...
I can be against Obama's policies and NOT be a racist.
I can be against homosexual marriage and NOT be a homophobe.
I can be against un-checked illegal immigration and NOT be a racist/zenophobe.
I can be against Muslim Jihadism and NOT be a genocidal murderer. etc. etc. etc...
So please give some of us the benefit of the doubt in regards to our opinions and motives. If not, you make the same mistakes that Karl Rove made during his reign of secrecy in the White House. He determined it was not in the best interests of the Admin. to communicate to the country, or even explain what the fuck was going on. He vastly under-estimated the intelligence of the American people, and if you, Rue, and others do the same by marginalizing what others believe, then your current high crest of Liberalism that you're on the verge of attaining may disappear and be dismantled right before your eyes in a very short time.
You know, Jongsy, you ALMOST make is sound like I could be against torture and not be a freedom-hating terrorist-lover.
Or I could oppose the war in Iraq and NOT be a member of a French Al Qaeda sleeper cell.
Or I could be an Arab and NOT be hell-bent on wiping America off the map in a hell of nuclear fire.
I say ALMOST because all of these things and more have been proposed by people of your own Republican party.
Maybe that's where some of us get the idea that they're the party of hate and divisiveness.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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"That's a very poor conclusion to arrive at ..."
I just read an article (now unavailable) where a sizeable group of moderate repubicans left the party - I don't remember what they called themselves - but they considered themselves social moderates and fiscal conservatives - and basically told the party to either dump the religious extremists or they would go. Guess what happened ?
"It's extremely sanctimonious, absurdly condescending, and offensively biased."
But increasingly true.
"Just 21 percent of those surveyed identified themselves as Republicans. That's the lowest since the fall of 1983, when just 19 percent identified themselves as Republicans. ... From a high-water mark of 35 percent in the fall of 2003, Republicans have slid steadily to their present state of affairs."
"If anything, his recent rant about the "racist" Obama/Pirate incident has marginalized his views forever."
If you mean losing support of the more moderate and sane people, I hope so. If you mean no longer the voice of the shrinking repubican party, we'll have to see.
"There are serious people in the Republican Party, but there is no effective organization at this point."
Which is what I'm saying. That leaves Limbaugh and other extremists in the de facto position.
"I can be against Obama's policies and NOT be a racist." But until you can elucidate a rational reason WHY, it gets left to others to speculate their own reasons. And if, like the repubicans in congress, you are opposed to EVERYTHING, such blanket opposition comes across as simply racist. Because you aren't reacting to issues, but to the president.
"I can be against homosexual marriage and NOT be a homophobe." I don't see how, unless you independently are a religious zealot.
"I can be against un-checked illegal immigration and NOT be a racist/xenophobe." But who is FOR un-checked illegal immigration ? Not Obama, not the party, not me. So this position is just so much grandstanding.
"I can be against Muslim Jihadism and NOT be a genocidal murderer. etc. etc. etc..." But until you disavow the statements of people like Rap, that position will be plastered to you. Remember, 'silence is consent'.
"So please give some of us the benefit of the doubt in regards to our opinions and motives."
I need to ask - why should I ?
I don't see you speaking up against Christian religious extremism. I don't see you speaking up against the racist rant of Rush or Rap or others. I don't see you speaking up against the blanket opposition to ANY policy put forth by the black man in office regardless of merit. I don't see you with an unbiased approach to any Obama-related incident or issue at ALL - from the budget to the pirates to the dog.
But to acknowledge this - you DID stand up - and quite eloquently and forcefully - against torture.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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I don't think you meant me there, Kwickie, but I'll respond anyway.
I think this just goes to the heart of the matter that what is said by a minority of a group is taken as the stance of the entire group by the opposition. Goes for Democrats and Republicans, Right and Left, Liberal and Conservative. I can be a conservative and NOT be a hate-monger or divisive. It's not in my nature. But I sure as heck don't agree with most of the Liberal ideology. I'm not going to lump every single Liberal into the Looney Moonbat sub-group, though. Every group is made up of a vast cultural and environmental diversity of people. Let's agree on that, huh?
I don't recall hearing what you're saying coming out of the Republican Party. Certainly not those in the leadership roles. I'm not saying it's not there, I'm just saying I haven't heard it and when you do hear it from a member of ANY party or group, it should be taken with a grain of salt and mulled over what the actual beliefs of the majority of that party are. People call Hannity and Beck hate-mongers and vitriolic speakers. As a listener to both of these guys, I can tell you, they have their moments of outrage, but for the most part, they seem to be humble guys trying to get a message across. Beck is a truly funny guy. But if you get him upset over something, he'll tell ya, by golly. I don't think that makes him a hate-monger because one has to take all of his comments in context.
From what I can tell, these guys are NOT haters of everything non-Conservative. In fact, I've heard many conversations between each host and a member of the opposite view whom they consider dear friends. They both laugh and joke, they have an honest discussion and debate and then wish each other the best.
I'll give you an example of something I encountered a few years ago that opened my eyes a little bit. My wife's cousin was considering running for office as a Democrat. They were struggling with this because, yes, GW Bush drove them away from the Republican party. We talked a little while about it and he said that what I thought the Democratic Party stood for (pro-choice, anti-military, etc.) just was not true of the majority of the people he encountered. So I no longer lump all Democrats into the Looney Left bin. But there sure are a lot of outspoken Looney Lefters in the Democratic party that go unchecked. At the same time, I would agree that there are Right-wing nut jobs in the Republican party, but that's not the entire make-up of the party.
So, all I'm sayin' is that implying all that's left of the Republican Party are Right-Wing nutjobs is a broad, sweeping generalization that's not entirely accurate. It would be like me saying the only people left in the Democratic party are the likes of Al Franken, Harry Reid and Nancy Peolosi.
***Edited to add: I talk about Hannity and Beck, not Limbaugh. I don't listen to him very often, so I can't speak effectively to what goes on in regards to his radio program.
Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas
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"... what is said by a minority of a group is taken as the stance of the entire group ..."
Until the majority of the party disavows those statements, they can be taken as representative of the party.
What happens is that the repubican party uses the extemists to appeal to a larger audience, to bring them in. It is their silence - and YOUR silence - that attaches you to the positions made in your name.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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And the same can be said of Liberals. Right? That's all I'm saying, Rue. That BOTH sides have to claim responsibility for the outspoken "looneys" in their parties. I know the Democrats certainly don't seem to.
Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"There are serious people in the Republican Party, but there is no effective organization at this point."
Which is what I'm saying. That leaves Limbaugh and other extremists in the de facto position.
IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT. YOURS IS A FALSE CONCLUSION DRIVEN BY PARTY DOGMA
Quote:
"I can be against Obama's policies and NOT be a racist." But until you can elucidate a rational reason WHY, it gets left to others to speculate their own reasons. And if, like the repubicans in congress, you are opposed to EVERYTHING, such blanket opposition comes across as simply racist. Because you aren't reacting to issues, but to the president.
RACISM IS YOUR SIDE'S WORD. I JUST CALL IT OPPOSITION TO A LEFT-WING LIBERAL AGENDA. REPUBLICANS OPPOSING THE DEMS ON EVERYTHING IS JUST DEFENDING THEIR CORE BELIEFS AGAINST SOCIALISM AND BIG GOVT.
Quote:
"I can be against homosexual marriage and NOT be a homophobe." I don't see how, unless you independently are a religious zealot.
ONCE AGAIN YOU DEMONSTRATE YOUR INTOLERANCE FOR THOSE WHO DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. HOMOSEXUAL MARIAIGE ISSUE IS AN AFFRONT TO THE MORAL, RELIGIOUS, AND ETHICAL SENSIBILITIES OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.
Quote:
"I can be against un-checked illegal immigration and NOT be a racist/xenophobe." But who is FOR un-checked illegal immigration ? Not Obama, not the party, not me. So this position is just so much grandstanding.
TELL THAT TO THE DOZENS OF LIBERAL DEMOCRAT MAYORS AND GOVERNORS WHO PROVIDE ILLEGALS WITH SANCTUARY PROTECTION. THEIR LAW ENFORCEMENT IS PROHIBITED FROM REPORTING THE ALIEN CRIMINALS TO ICE, A VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW.
Quote:
"I can be against Muslim Jihadism and NOT be a genocidal murderer. etc. etc. etc..." But until you disavow the statements of people like Rap, that position will be plastered to you. Remember, 'silence is consent'.
IT'S NOT MY JOB TO DISAVOW OR REIN IN ALL CONSERVATIVES. THEIR OPINIONS HAVE VALIDITY, EVEN IF I DISAGREE ON SOME POINTS. I COULD SAY THE SAME OF YOU.
Quote:
"So please give some of us the benefit of the doubt in regards to our opinions and motives."
I need to ask - why should I ?
I don't see you speaking up against Christian religious extremism. I don't see you speaking up against the racist rant of Rush or Rap or others. I don't see you speaking up against the blanket opposition to ANY policy put forth by the black man in office regardless of merit. I don't see you with an unbiased approach to any Obama-related incident or issue at ALL - from the budget to the pirates to the dog.
WHY NOT? I'M NO BUSH DIE-HARD, & I'VE BEEN PRETTY FAIR TO OBAMA SO FAR. AGAIN, NOT MY JOB OR DESIRE TO COMMENT ON EVERYONE'S POSTS, YOUR'S NEITHER.
Quote:
But to acknowledge this - you DID stand up - and quite eloquently and forcefully - against torture.
THANKS FOR AT LEAST THAT.
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