Missing Slayer

POSTED BY: SpikeSpiegel
UPDATED: Friday, August 27, 2004 13:34
VIEWED: 13165
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AMRCANPOET

Thursday, June 3, 2004 5:12 PM

Okay, it seems that everyone is arguing in a circle. Here's the problem as it stands:

1) The characters have stated in the 6th season that Buffy's second death does not instigate a calling of a slayer, since Faith is still the current slayer. This is what we were always led to believe.

2) In Season 7, though, Buffy along with others state that when Buffy dies, another slayer will be called. This is either false, or the previous assumption was false.

Either way, the writers messed up at some point. True, they could defend themselves and say, "Well, the minute the Watcher's Council gave up on Faith and allowed Buffy to return as a slayer, that put Buffy back into the loop." But, that would make no sense, as Buffy was "a slayer" before her second death, and no slayer was ever called.

The writers messed up, simple as that. I'll let that slide, but what I'm most concerned with is how this whol "every potential is a slayer" thing fits in with the FRAY mythology!!!

We learn in Fray that after Buffy's death no slayers were called. Well, what about all the other slayers that were already alive? Did they all die in that great war that "killed" (we don't know if she died in the battle or of old age) Buffy?

It's a mess, but excusable for their sheer audacity at attacking something as convoluted as this.

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Thursday, June 3, 2004 9:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by amrcanpoet:
Here's the problem as it stands:
1) The characters have stated in the 6th season that Buffy's second death does not instigate a calling of a slayer, since Faith is still the current slayer. This is what we were always led to believe.

To be honest, I'd have to watch back to see whether they left any wiggle room, but I think I recall something like that being said - at a guess Buffy got back into the loop with her trips to the First and so forth,

Quote:

We learn in Fray that after Buffy's death no slayers were called. Well, what about all the other slayers that were already alive? Did they all die in that great war that "killed" (we don't know if she died in the battle or of old age) Buffy?

Its like B5's Sinclair - he referred to himself as the last commander of the Babylon Station, and people pointed out Sheridan, who was a Captain. After Chosen no new replacement slayers were called - they either were slayers or weren't. Those Potentials who were still alive were in the same boat.

Alternatively, perhaps there was no need as the evil had been vanquished for a while.

"I threw up on your bed"

LITWOLF689

Thursday, June 3, 2004 10:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Quicksand:
Quote:
Originally posted by Litwolf689:
We saw almost his whole time in the Initiative cell and they never once gave him anything to stop the pain. That is a good example of the writers being stupid.

Sorry I repeated what has already been said.

^-^

Hate to burst your bubble, but this is a good example of YOU bein' stupid. ;)

Spike was LYING... because he could hurt Buffy, and didn't want anyone to know that his chip was malfunctioning.... when in all actuality, it was Buffy that was malfunctioning. "A tan at the genetic level," as Tara referred to it. There was an entire episode (after Buffy found out Spike HAD BEEN LYING) where Buffy worried that Spike could hurt her because she was no longer human.

Tara put that fear to rest.... and thus, your arguement.

Sorry 'bout that.

The rest of my post is down below.

LITWOLF689

Thursday, June 3, 2004 10:06 PM

Okay, for some reason the post would not work so here is the rest of my post.

First off, I dont like that you called me stupid. Im not expecting an apology (sp?) but you should be nicer.

Second off, Im not talking about 6th season, Im talking about 7th season, with the "The Killer in Me" episode, where Willow turns into Warren. Tara is dead and they are battling the First, just to jog your memory.

Spike is in pain, not because he is killing people, but because his chip is broken. Here is a quote from a website I enjoy, called Television without Pity. They say the same thing:

Quote:
Cut to somewhere dark and outdoors. Buffy and Spike bumble along. They've both got flashlights because, while they can see in the dark, I can't. And while this show on occasion may make me wish for the sweet relief of blindness I'm not ready to turn in for The Buffy the Vampire Slayer Radio Hour. Spike asks Buffy if she's sure she "want[s] to go back to this place with me." "Eh," replies Buffy, "nothing good on TV tonight." This pun fails to hit "clever" and instead lands on "unfortunately apt." Psst, writers -- it's not really much of a joke if it's true. They swing their flashlights around for a while until they come to an unmarked place on the ground that looks much like all the other bits of ground. Must have been their blocking tape or whatever that told them where to start digging. Then Spike, for reasons I will never understand, starts spouting some bull about how they're after any surplus drugs the Initiative might have left behind. Spike knows about the existence of these drugs because, during his captivity, the soldiers would dose him to help him manage the residual chip pain from whenever he acted up. Let's just think about all the problems with this statement. First, the Initiative was never all that huggy-feely when it came to vampires and demons. I don't think the organization that wanted to vivisect Oz despite the fact that he was mostly human would be handing out Percocet to the soulless undead. Sure, they knocked the vamps out to experiment on them, but I can't believe that Buffy or Spike would consider being constantly unconscious a viable solution to Spike's problem. Secondly, we saw pretty much all of Spike's captivity. He woke up. He was disoriented. He talked to a vamp in the next cell, who told him about the scientific experiments. He escaped. Furthermore, he had NO IDEA that he had a chip put in his head until he was out of the Initiative. Otherwise, why would he be so darn surprised when he couldn't get his fangs up with Willow? If Drew Z. Greenberg was intent on resurrecting the Initiative (and let's remember what a rousing success that was the first time around), maybe he could have bothered to idly flip through the scripts from Season Four? This is more than a continuity hole; it's a continuity chasm, and it goes straight on down all the way to freakin' China. So.

Understand? See what Im trying to say? Do you get it now, are we on the same page? Good.

AMRCANPOET

Thursday, June 3, 2004 10:11 PM

The continuity doesn't bug me. I've seen far worse continuity errors from a show I hold far dearer to me heart, "The X-Files."

Hell, that show had a weekly column about all its inconsistencies.

QUICKSAND

Thursday, June 3, 2004 10:59 PM

Re: Beljoxa's Eye.

It was my understanding that the Slayer was screwing up the "Slayer Line" not because she had the audacity to live, but because she has the audacity to be a Bitch.

All the slayers previous to Buffy (and I'm just inferring, here) were nice little subservient slayers who honored the Code, honored their Watchers, and followed the tradition until such time as they were struck down.

Buffy was the first one to say: Screw you guys, I'm going home.

QUICKSAND

Thursday, June 3, 2004 11:05 PM

Mm, yes. See, if you call people Stupid, Litwolf, then expect to get called Stupid, back. That's the way the world works. Sorry to burst your little bubble.

And speaking of bursting bubbles....

No. I don't know who wrote your cute little article, but his/her entire arguement about the Initiative falls flat, becase after season #4, THERE WAS NO MORE INITIATIVE. When we see them seasons later, they are no longer any kind of Initiative. The high-ranking government-types shut the whole program down... the people who show up to remove/repair Spike's chip are just Army Guys. Army Guys, by the way, who are under Riley's command, and will do what he says no matter what-- and what Riley told them was, "Do what Buffy says."

Ever been in the army, pal? They SUCK at questioning orders. You can try it, but then they tend to shoot you.

Now, as far as Spike's line about the drugs they gave him to keep him in line.... at face value, I'll give you, it looks like Greenberg dropped the ball. But Joss reviewed every script that came in; I haven't seen the episode in question since it was new-- but I'm sure there was something else at work there.

Sorry your website friends don't like "Buffy." Maybe they should try WATCHING SOMETHING ELSE.

Warm Smoochies,

___\_o_/___
--------------- (Qs)

LITWOLF689

Thursday, June 3, 2004 11:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Quicksand:
No. I don't know who wrote your cute little article, but his/her entire arguement about the Initiative falls flat, becase after season #4, THERE WAS NO MORE INITIATIVE. When we see them seasons later, they are no longer any kind of Initiative. The high-ranking government-types shut the whole program down... the people who show up to remove/repair Spike's chip are just Army Guys. Army Guys, by the way, who are under Riley's command, and will do what he says no matter what-- and what Riley told them was, "Do what Buffy says."

Ever been in the army, pal? They SUCK at questioning orders. You can try it, but then they tend to shoot you.

Now, as far as Spike's line about the drugs they gave him to keep him in line.... at face value, I'll give you, it looks like Greenberg dropped the ball. But Joss reviewed every script that came in; I haven't seen the episode in question since it was new-- but I'm sure there was something else at work there.

Sorry your website friends don't like "Buffy." Maybe they should try WATCHING SOMETHING ELSE.

Warm Smoochies,

___\_o_/___
--------------- (Qs)

Im glad you finally agree that the writers screwed up a little on the script.

And I know there is no Initiative after season 4. What are you going off about? What he/she means is the few times they did try to mention the Initiative, or the government at all, again (Riley going crazy and growing super strong and when Riley came back with his wife) were very bad and not needed. The whole point of the argument is that there were no drugs that we saw on screen (and there is no proof at all that they used drugs even off screen). I dont know what the heck your talking about.

ANGELDOVE

Saturday, June 5, 2004 4:37 AM

Hi, its me again, I posted that long long long series of quotes from seasons 6 & 7 looking for a line that I knew I had heard but after hours of script reviewing could not find to save my life, and give me back the wasted hours!!! Then I' watchin' Buffy repeats on FX, and low and behold, there is my reference I was looking for all along!

BUFFY: I just...I don't understand why I'm back.
GILES: You have a calling.
BUFFY: But it was my time, Giles. Someone would have taken my place. (Giles nods, sadly)
Buffy: So why?

And so after all that searching, there it is. I've known for sometime that it was just a continuity mistake, and it isn't the first in either of the Buffyverse series, and yes, they do bother me too, alot. So I thought, lets spice it up (like this needs spicin' up) with this intersting conundrum...The first tells the Ubervamp to go after the other potentials, first, kill Buffy last, so no new slayeretts called...yada yada..(my problem with that theory below), anyway, Faith has an inmate come after her in prison, with the bringers knife, ready to kill her...ok, they wouldn't want her dead either for the same reasons right? My argument with not killing the real slayers first, once called, wouldn't it be easier to kill newbie slayers that don't really know what they are doing? I'm just saying.

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

ANGELDOVE

Friday, August 27, 2004 9:18 AM

When I saw this in the original shooting script by Joss Whedon before he changed it for final shooting, I just had to post it here. This is how Joss answered that question we have all been asking:

Quote:
BUFFY: It’s true none of you has the power Faith and I have. (she glances at Dawn) I think both Faith and I (beat, should she?) and Dawn... would have to die for a new one to be called,(the potentials react, Buffy hurries to continue) and we can’t even be sure that girl is in this room...
KENNEDY: What do you mean, Dawn would have to die?
BUFFY: (hesitant) When I died, the second time. No new slayer was called. Because Dawn was me...is me. The monks who sent her here made her from me and now the line moves through all three of us. That’s the rule... The mystical forces surrounding the Chosen ones have been destablized and we can’t fix them. The line is vulnerabe and we can’t put things back the way they were. So we’re going to change the way things are. Here’s the part where you make a choice.

Also, fun things to note, in the original version Xander dies to protect Dawn and Anya lives. Spike still dies although he has to fight off a now slayer strength Dawn to get the amulet back from her as she plans to wear it, figuring it was meant for the Key.
And the original ending:

Quote:
ANGLE : Debris, the fallen school.
A hand, bloody and beaten, pushes it’s way up through the rubbel.
BLACK OUT.

How very intersting...was it Xander?

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

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