Reynolds vs. Cobb?

POSTED BY: manwithpez
UPDATED: Thursday, June 3, 2004 22:25
VIEWED: 3802
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MANWITHPEZ

Wednesday, June 2, 2004 1:04 AM

I guess I'm just stuck on the pathos that there will never be another episode of the show. Sure, movies are great, but, they too, come to an end. While I was watching the show, I realized that Jayne could probably whip the crap out of Mal, but never does, though he looks like he'd like to half the time. What happened between these two that makes Jayne kowtow to Mal so much. Here is a character that has proven on more than one occasion that there isn't much he's afraid of, or even respects besides himself, money, and a fondness for hookers. What makes Mal so special? Think it'd be cool if, in the movie, they decided to either tell us, or let these two throw down. Be kinda cool, I think.

"You would've lied anyway..."
Mal

TERRIBLETINK

Wednesday, June 2, 2004 1:27 AM

I'd like to think Jayne has some kind of loyalty to Mal. It might just be based on the fact that Mal treats him a little better than his previous "employers." But there might be the beginnings of a sense of loyalty there. He spoke pretty openly to Mal at the end of Jaynestown.

I don't know if we'd see these two go at it, though. Despite his obvious toughness, Jayne is a follower more than a leader and he seems to have an understanding of the chain of command. (Especially considering how well he explained it in The Train Job. ) I don't think he'd take on Mal face-to-face. If he ever turned on Mal, it would be behind his back, I think.

I think they're going to have to be very careful about how they handle Jayne v. Mal or any sort of inevitable Jayne betrayal in the movie. Once that character goes too far down the good guy/bad guy road, it kills the suspense. If he were to betray Mal (or, after the whole airlock scene, anyone on the ship), then he's not going to be able to be one of crew and is pretty much out of the story. Likewise, should he pull off a big heroic act and almost sacrifice himself to save River or something, then the character loses something there too because there's no more suspenseful edge. So I would hope that Joss won't do anything too drastic in the movie. I mean, it would pretty much suck if they made Jayne a bad guy and killed him off an hour into this movie and then the show goes back to TV some day but without Jayne.

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"Morbid and creepifyin' I got no problem with - long as she does it quiet-like."

MANWITHPEZ

Wednesday, June 2, 2004 1:32 AM

Yeah, but it's Whedon...He could come back.

I don't doubt that he's loyal, and I'm sure they were going to flesh out why. Its just given Jayne's disrespect for most things (Even Mal in Serenity...the whole "You don't pay me to talk pretty" thing)and his dislike of most of the rest of the crew...with the problematic exception of Book. Is it me, or did it seem that Book was the person Jayne got along with the best? Another relationship I would like to see pursued. I know this post's a little loopy, but I'm cold. The air conditioning in Korea is set on "Blue Ass", I think. I mean there is that moment in Serenity with him by the infirmary window for Kaylee, but, its Kaylee...You have to love her. Plus, I think he kinda felt bad for what he said at the table...Who knows.

"You would've lied anyway..."
Mal

BROWNCOAT1

Wednesday, June 2, 2004 1:40 AM

I agree w/ TerribleTink that as rough & tough as Jayne may try to act, he has a heart, and in his time w/ the crew is coming to learn loyalty, at least to a degree.

Take Jaynestown for instance. Jayne feels remorse and confusion over the Mudders hero worship of him and the young Mudder's self sacrifice to save him. This is evident in his conversation w/ Mal at the end of the episode. I also offer up Jayne's obvious caring and protective behavior of Kaylee. She is like a kid sister to him.

I think that Jayne would never actually try to surplant Mal, or even raise a gun to him. He has found a man he can respect in Mal, and a home of sorts on Serenity.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, June 2, 2004 2:34 AM

2 quick comments:

When Mal offers Jayne a job ( in OoG), Jayne probably wasn't use to such a forward show of respect for his 'talents'. I think deep down, that indebted Jayne to Mal, if not so much on a verbal level. Jayne also figures that there's more to Mal than meets the eye, and even if he could probably whipe the floor w/ him in a straight up fight...Mal always has something up his sleeve.

Also, from 'Ariel', Mal leaves no doubt just what he expects from Jayne,and what he's is willing to do should Jayne cross him again.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

WEERWOLF

Wednesday, June 2, 2004 5:34 AM

Maybe Jayne has once seen The Real Mal in action and doesn't want to tickle any sleeping dragons. It would explain why he gets out of the way when Captain Mal gets serious (the dinner party in Serenity, Mal sending Wash to the bridge in Out of Gas).

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"Damn it Mal... I forgot my line!"

MANWITHPEZ

Wednesday, June 2, 2004 6:03 AM

And another thing. That reaction shot of Jayne outside the infirmary...Why was nothing like that ever repeated. I know a lot of people are going to point to the end of "Jaynetown", but after a fresh viewing, it occurs to me that Jayne didn't really grow from the experience. All he says is I don't understand and why...Not bad things, but nothing to change his character much either. Plus, he gets down to his real greedy side later on anyways. Plus, one of my favorite exchanges in the show happens in Jaynetown between Kaylee and Simon right before the talk Mal has with Jayne. I think Jayne's a great character, I'm not questioning that. But, if there's a character going to turn on the crew from the inside, he's the best bet...Which is probably why it would be Wash or Zoe. It is a Joss Whedon show, after all...

"You would've lied anyway..."
Mal

ELWOODMOM

Wednesday, June 2, 2004 6:24 AM

All the posts here make sense, and I can't really add any more to everyone's point of view. I also wondered about why Jayne didn't up and take Mal down. I just thought that he knew his background was on land, and figured he wasn't qualified to captain a ship. He's also sneaky in his ways of getting ahead. A contradictory character, who buys apples for the crew because of his conscience!

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, June 2, 2004 12:12 PM

Jayne is loyal to Mal for four reasons:

1) It is more profitable to be 'with' Mal than it is to be against Mal.

2) He does not have to worry about the rest of the crew betraying him or stealing from him (something to be concerned about in the company of pirates and cutthroats.)

3) Size and strength mean nothing to a bullet. Mal is quite capable of ending Mr. Cobb. He has also demonstrated a superior intellect. Mal even clobbered Jayne physically once. Bullies respect that sort of thing. A wrench to the face makes a lasting impression.

4) Jayne is gradually coming to like and respect the people he works with on Serenity.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

ELWOODMOM

Wednesday, June 2, 2004 3:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Jayne is loyal to Mal for four reasons:

1) It is more profitable to be 'with' Mal than it is to be against Mal.

2) He does not have to worry about the rest of the crew betraying him or stealing from him (something to be concerned about in the company of pirates and cutthroats.)

3) Size and strength mean nothing to a bullet. Mal is quite capable of ending Mr. Cobb. He has also demonstrated a superior intellect. Mal even clobbered Jayne physically once. Bullies respect that sort of thing. A wrench to the face makes a lasting impression.

4) Jayne is gradually coming to like and respect the people he works with on Serenity.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

1. Agreed, in fact, I hadn't thought of that aspect!
2. Probably doesn't concern Jayne, since he knows he could beat hell out of anyone who touches his stuff!
3. Yup, Mal was definately speaking in Jayne's languare then!
4. Which is probably very surprising to him, this caring about others bit!

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