Poll: When Crow goes through Serenity's engine...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, March 5, 2009 18:50
VIEWED: 13685
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"Where it is most needed" doesn't mean "it's not available". The Alliance Pharmaceutical Companies would be wise to sell it to all worlds to turn a profit. We do this in the US. Africa is one of our largest clients that buy our drugs, as their need is great.
Simon knows the value of the meds, in any market, and pays Mal with that knowledge. Mal doesn't distribute them out of the goodness of his heart. He sells them on the unregulated Black Market, which doesn't necessarily mean at a lower cost to those in need.
I think there's a tendency to want to make the core worlds full of nasty greedy Alliance people and make the people of the Rim noble, self-sacrificing and honest working. That may be Mal's perception that has been touched on before in other threads, but I don't think it was the intention of Joss and the other writers. It’s too black and white for those of us that know there are shades of grey:)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I think that quote from Mal about his work being "honest" is in the context of Inara's work somehow NOT being honest. He sees her work as leading people on. (...) So he feels his work is more honest than Inara's work.
That's certainly the case. As regards Inara's profession, he can't stand "The lie of it."
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I don't think it nececssarily follows that he thinks his work is morally justifiable, or that he thinks his work makes him a "good guy."
Not 'morally justifiable' an sich, per se; more like 'at least more justifiable than Inara's work.' Because his work may be illegal, but at least it's honest.
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If anything, I suspect he thinks of himself as a murdering heartless thief, and his work is all wrapped up in that. I think he's very much aware that he's a criminal, he wishes he wasn't a criminal, and Inara's social position makes him feel just how low he is all the worse.
Mal's is a complex personality, with a manifold of dark streaks, regrets, and disillusions. I agree he wished he weren't in the thieving business. Yet I feel this has more to do with disliking the fact that he constantly has to put his crew in danger and consort with the kinda people he thinks he's better than, like the likes of Badger and Patience. In the pilot Zoe offers alternatives, but Mal, while uncomfortable with it, just knows he has no choice. It's either Patience or be stuck dead in space.
Mal regrets having to shoot the guy at Lilac (so the Reavers wouldn't get him alive). In fact, he hates it. Not because he sees himself as a 'murdering heartless thief,' but because it's come down to that. They never left a man behind, let alone shot him. Mal feels he let himself down. Here's a man who valiantly held out until the very last moment, at Serenity Valley; and now he's leaving a man stranded at what must seem like the first sign of trouble, in comparison. And worse even, he knows he had no real choice. Zoe knows it, too. Her "Sir, I don't disagree on any particular point," really nails the sentiment: she too truly regrets that it's come to this; but she too can't really blame Mal: Mule won't run with the extra passenger.
So, if anything, Mal feels low at that time in the BDM. Very low. This is not precisely the 'romantic' life of an Independent he had envisioned. But does he feel self-loathing because he killed the poor sap, in terms of going against God? No, I believe not at all. 'Tweren't even on his mind, not even subconsciously. Did Mal lose any sleep, whatsoever, over ripping off the Alliance hospital? Perhaps only because of Jayne. But because he went against his dear and fluffy Lord, taking what ain't his? Hell no! In fact, I think, in Mal's mind, God falls into the same category as Crow now: it's God who threw away the deck first, as far as Mal is concerned: whatever deal he had with God, he no longer feels particularly beholden to honor it; and all this on account of God screwing Mal first.
See, I think Mal's still a Sargeant, always thinking about his men/crew. That's where Mal's real regrets lie: not being able to give them a better life, always having to deal with scum, just to make ends meet. That's what he hates the most.
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Generally, though, I don't get the sense of pride from Mal for what he does, but practical necessity and weary acceptance.
I should qualify what I meant when I said Mal would be proud if Inara called him a 'great thief.' Sit him around the table, and ask Mal, in general, whether thieving is a thing to be proud of, and I'm fair sure he'd say no. But had Inara called him a 'great thief,' in that quoted convo, I doubt he would have even heard the word 'thief,' or have it register in his brain. All he would have heard is that classy Inara said his work was 'great.' And at such moment, yes, I think he would have been proud.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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It's true, I only used the phrase "Robin Hood" to describe the few times they feel like they CAN justify robbing from someone (i.e. they're rich and a jerk/Alliance bastard/Slaver/won't miss it). But I don't think Robin Hood is the usual case with them.
Most of the time, I get the feeling they're more scavengers/graverobbers, and because they rarely go towards the Core or even the more Core-like border planets, they probably end up stealing from Rim Folk more often than not. Mal tries to steal from the dishonest Rim Folk, but sometimes that just doesn't happen, like in the Train Job. And I also think the Train Job was probably an exception, and that most of the time, Mal doesn't return what he steals.
Basically, it's not all glorious strikes against the Alliance, and I think, considering the hard life and reality they live, the entire crew must know that their life and their thieving are not glamourous. The crew has never been shown to have anything but a realistic perspective of what they do and how dangerous it is.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
"Where it is most needed" doesn't mean "it's not available". The Alliance Pharmaceutical Companies would be wise to sell it to all worlds to turn a profit. We do this in the US. Africa is one of our largest clients that buy our drugs, as their need is great.
Simon knows the value of the meds, in any market, and pays Mal with that knowledge. Mal doesn't distribute them out of the goodness of his heart. He sells them on the unregulated Black Market, which doesn't necessarily mean at a lower cost to those in need.
I think there's a tendency to want to make the core worlds full of nasty greedy Alliance people and make the people of the Rim noble, self-sacrificing and honest working. That may be Mal's perception that has been touched on before in other threads, but I don't think it was the intention of Joss and the other writers. It’s too black and white for those of us that know there are shades of grey:)
Now, some people don't think the RPG manual is canon, but so far stuff I've seen in there has turned up referenced in extras on the Serenity DVDs, and so I still quote it.
And in the RPG manual, unfortunately it suggests that there's a lot of thinking in the Core and Parliament that the Rim needs to be punished for the Independence War. It's sort of like just after the Civil War, the Reconstruction period. A lot of people in the North wanted the South punished, and there were folks called carpet baggers who moved in to take advantage of the South's resources and generally rub the South's nose in their losses.
So, a lot of technology and supplies from the Core don't reach the Rim, and Core based companies don't sell to the Rim as often as you might think, if profits were the only consideration.
Funny thing is, it wasn't all the Rim who was Independent. There were three major border planets (Shadow, Hera, and Persephone), and a few assorted moons, but a lot of the Rim remained Alliance. Like Santos, where Mal starts that U-Day bar fight. But that's again kind of like the South; a lot of homesteads didn't join in the South's cause, but got lumped in as traitors by the North after the war was over.
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Asarian, from what you've said, I don't think we disagree on this as much as we seem to. :)
Mal doesn't like putting his crew in danger, Mal sometimes feels like he has to compromise his own moral standards, Mal thinks he's a bad man. That's really all I've been saying.
It's still a good point about the "great thief" reaction. I honestly am not sure how he would act. I can see him selectively ignoring the thief part and just trying to be happy about the great part, as you say, but I can also see him denying the compliment, or getting angry.
When Kaylee calls him a good man, he doesn't agree with her. I'm not sure he'd agree with Inara, were she to ever call him a great thief and mean it. And isn't that kind of inherently a contradiction, really? There's layers to how that simple comment could be interpretted, and it complicates imagining what Mal's reaction would be. It also depends on what his mood is. Is he feeling like a smart ass? Or maybe honest? Mean? Cheerful? Brooding?
I agree with you that he couldn't give a rat's ass anymore if he defies God's laws. But Ma Reynold's laws... That's another story, I think. :)
She tried to raise a rustic gentleman, according to the RPG manual. 40 ranch hands implies a pretty well-off ranch, he might have very well been sort of upper class for Shadow. In any case, the manual says that his mother homeschooled him and taught him some of that fancy dancing he demonstrates in Shindig. How he was brought up aside from the faith he was raised with, that foundation is still there in him, and it's the source of his conscience that I think he does struggle with.
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When Crow goes through Serenity's engine, Wash makes a perfect landing on the Hudson River!
No wait... those were *gulp* geese.
I did cringe, but I could feel Mal's anger. Our boy has issues. I could not help but chuckle a bit, especially when he went to the next guy.
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