Poll: When Crow goes through Serenity's engine...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, March 5, 2009 18:50
VIEWED: 13685
PAGE 3 of 9
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I MEAN, if the bodyguard hadn't saved Niska, Mal would have pounded him TO DEATH.
Nope, can't say that I see it that way. He had AMPLE time to kill Niska afterwards; and in his cargo-bay conversation with Inara Mal makes it very clear he made a CHOICE to let him live:
INARA: I just wish you had killed that old bastard!
MAL: Well, I got regret on that score my own self.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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And I agree: I don't think Mal kills if it's not necessary. Or he tries not to, anyway.
Extending that argument... How was Crow's death not necessary? If Mal had left the brute alive, he would have had to deal with him EVENTUALLY. Crow had just sworn against all reason and inspite of Mal's attempts at a peace negotiation to hunt Mal and his crew down if left alive. What other option did Mal have?
As for my previous post, I don't like the Alliance any more than anyone else does. They tend to either be bastards, or ignorant. But if it came down to being blown up versus being raped and/or (simultaneously) flayed to death, I think one of those options is a whole lot fluffier of a way to die. What Mal brings upon those Alliance soldiers is pretty much unspeakable. He does it because he has no other choice, and we accept his actions because of that.
Look at it this way: if there'd have been a feasible alternative to bringing Reavers down on the Alliance, and Mal had gone ahead anyway... What would be your impression of what he did? Still justified on account of all the nameless Alliance stooges in his way? Or a horrific way to kill a lot of people?
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I think Mal was referring to regreting not having the chance, there. Niska got away before Mal could kill him.
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Quote:Y'all can see it how ya like, Asarian.
Originally posted by asarian:
Nope, can't say that I see it that way. He had AMPLE time to kill Niska
I JUST watched it to be sure- Mal was tryin' his hardest to end that creep, he just didn't have enough time or strength. Watch it again & you'll see I'm right.
"Thanks." -Hero, 2009
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:You're far too nice, Bytemite. You sign up with the Alliance, you should know it's history (as much as is possible), and you gotta see the duplicitous nature of the peeps in charge. I shed no tears for them.
Originally posted by Bytemite:
What Mal brings upon those Alliance soldiers is pretty much unspeakable.
Ever see the "Clerks" conversation about sub-contractors on the Death Star? Same thing.
"Thanks." -Hero, 2009
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
And I agree: I don't think Mal kills if it's not necessary. Or he tries not to, anyway.
Extending that argument... How was Crow's death not necessary? If Mal had left the brute alive, he would have had to deal with him EVENTUALLY. Crow had just sworn against all reason and inspite of Mal's attempts at a peace negotiation to hunt Mal and his crew down if left alive. What other option did Mal have?
To me, Crow was just loud-mouthing. Big guy on his knees, his ego just couldn't handle that. But that doesn't necessarily constitute a credible threat. I mean, since when is Crow in charge of Niska's skyplex? After all, he's just a guy who stands at the door and likes to say ""Boo!" :) I doubt Niska just lets his henchmen go off on a personal vendetta whenever they feel like it. It was clear, however, that eventually Mal would have to deal with Niska. And I believe even Mal knew that at the time. That, certainly, was a real threat. Killing Crow, however, did not alleviate that threat (perhaps even only hastened it).
Quote:
What Mal brings upon those Alliance soldiers is pretty much unspeakable. He does it because he has no other choice.
Indeed, their fate would be gruesome. But, like you say, what other options does he have? He can't just assemble a civilized counter-fleet. I ain't saying that being an Alliance soldier equals signing up to be a banquet. But they did want Mal dead first, with a powerful will. And sometimes your enemy fights back.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Did Simon know, before his sister was put through the ringer? Did Inara?
There's a whole lot of Alliance patriotism in the core. None of those people are necessarily bad. They just don't know what's really going on.
All of the Alliance grunts? The crews of the ships? They had no idea why they were there. The information on their mission was classified. The only people who knew more than just the names and rough description of Serenity's crew were the Operative and possibly the ship commanders, if he had informed them. And even Miranda had been concealed from the Operative. How much information did any of the Alliance military involved in that blockade have? I'm guessing not a lot, and I'm also guessing they had enough trust and faith in their government that they didn't ask.
So, in my opinion, those Alliance grunts, for supporting their government, are about as guilty and deserving of death as Inara and Simon. Which is to say, not at all.
I'm not saying it's not what Mal had to do. I'm just saying it's unfortunate. And it's also a good example of Mal having to do something for the sake of survival that in any other situation would be really distasteful and very immoral.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Y'all can see it how ya like, Asarian.
I just watched it again, too. :) Pulled up the shooting script for the occassion as well. It describes Mal's mood as "(deadly)" as he stumbles towards Niska. Hmm.
That little cargo-bay exchange between Inara and Mal, about him regretting not having killed the old bastard, surprisingly isn't actually in the shooting script. Wonder why Joss, aparently, then added that scene later. However the case may be, I would be kinda disappointed if it turns out Mal really wanted to kill Niska. I've always read the whole scene as Joss letting us believe Mal was gonna kill him for sure, but then, in a Jossian twist, doesn't do so. And after Dalin falls into that shaft, I still don't see why Mal couldn't have killed Niska at that time.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Quote:Two words.
Originally posted by asarian:
And after Dalin falls into that shaft, I still don't see why Mal couldn't have killed Niska at that time.
Niska.
Gone.
"Thanks." -Hero, 2009
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:So that's to say you DIDN'T see that conversation in "Clerks," eh?
Originally posted by Bytemite:
So, in my opinion, those Alliance grunts, for supporting their government, are about as guilty and deserving of death as Inara and Simon. Which is to say, not at all.
"Thanks." -Hero, 2009
The laughing Chrisisall
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