Is There a Doctor in the House? (zoid post)
POSTED BY: zoid
UPDATED: Thursday, June 10, 2004 17:26
VIEWED: 12630
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Greetings, Fellow Browncoats!
Okay, so I figured I'd start labelling the threads that I'd started to help folks avoid my rambling diatribes -- or find 'em, if they're of a mind to read something quasi-serious...
I've been working long and odd hours this week and had very little time to chat and comment with you fine folks as a result. Ah, well. I'm gonna be off this week, and the tasks in the 'honeydew jar' don't appear too complex; maybe I'll get more time to say stuff. For those waiting for my final 'future quote', I'm probably gonna post that one right at midnight-oh-one CDT, because I've got a full day tomorrow. You night owls will get a jump on the early birds...
So, t'any rate, this here thread is a perspective on the good doctor of Firefly, Simon Tam. Like a poor football special teams unit, I'll kick it off and y'all will probably run it back down my throat. In this first installment, we'll look at his upbringing and how that affects his 'worldview'; and we'll discuss how he manages to be so smooth, suave and debonair and yet not 'close the deal' with Kaylee. Here goes...
Simon Tam is a child of wealth, born with the proverbial silver spoon in his mouth. From what we've seen, his parents are not as forthcoming with emotional support and nurturing as they are with the material trappings their life affords them. On the positive side, Father Tam is at least concerned with his children's potential abuse of the Internet, er, Cortex. Of course, he's probably just worried that someone is going to query the history and cookie cache and find that someone in his household -- *cough*Simon*sniffle* -- has been going to "XXX-RatedMechanicGirls.com" and ruin Papa's reputation.
It might've been interesting for Joss to have taken Simon's parents the other direction, instead of what must be seen as the prototypical, 'Mommy and Daddy don't really love us, all they care about is money' angle. Does anybody on this board, reading this thread, come from a wealthy family? Were your parents as blase about your well-being as Simon's parents are? I come from dirt-poor types, so I have no first hand knowledge; but, I am acquainted with a doctor whose only daughter was killed in an automobile accident. Let's just say that it made of him a shell of his former self. Based on that observation, I presume there are some wealthy parents of truly beloved children, and it would've been interesting to see them sacrifice their fortune and social standing (and maybe their lives) in an attempt to save River.
Regardless the veracity of the myth of rich, loving parents, clearly, Simon and River have an unusually close relationship because of their rich and yet emotionally disconnected parentage. Simon is also a very detail-oriented and goal-driven person; I believe this may be attributed to the example his parents set.
Just a guess here, but I'd bet he went to an exclusive, all-boys' school (like JW himself did in his last 2+ years of high school) and only ever associated with fems during heavily-chaperoned interschool mixers. There has been much speculation, but I'd put my money on him being revealed as a virgin (as Joss has confessed he himself was for an extended period of time). Simon's simply too awkward around girls.
Is he gay? It's been suggested hereabouts; but just because he's very pretty, fastidious and well-dressed doesn't make him, er, well maybe it does. But I'd guess he's het'ro-, as well as metro-sexual.
I've played the 'fantasy episode' game before, and here's another: "Queer Eye for the Firefly". Simon analyzes and does makeovers for the other male cast members. SIMON: "Shepherd Book, I love the way your ensemble is coordinated in blacks and grays -- the little white choker is dreamy -- but your hair? Puh-leeze, girl! I've got two words for you: Oh, My, God!". Or how about, SIMON: "Jayne? Grrreat name! That's as in 'Mansfield', right? You know, she lost her head... And so will the girls when they see you in your new outfit! I've chosen a much tigh
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Greetings, Fellow Browncoats!
(snipped)
To all the Simon-loving girls hereabouts: nyah-nyah-ny-nyah-nyah! All us manly men (you know, those of us who are so manly that females are intimidated by our rugged manliness, and so, shun us as though we were filthy, hairy beasts... which, okay we are), we all know that deep down y'all want real men like us, not dandies with dainty features, soft hands and silk blouses like Simon. Am I right guys? (Hears crickets chirping, wind rustling in the trees, grass growing)...
I enjoyed this post a great deal, Zoid, until we got to this part. Then I started wondering if perhaps you've been re-reading too many Gor novels lately.
LOL!Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.
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I will have a (well insofar as I'm capable of) quasi-intelligent response for this soon Zoid. Good theory. But right now True Grit calls...so after.
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"
My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html
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Okay Zoid, I'm back. (True Grit was as good as it ever was too )
Anyhow, I definately see where you're coming from. And one of the things that popped into my head when Jubal Early was philosophising in the sick bay, you know the line,"They make psychiatrists get psychoanalyized but they don't make doctors get cut on. Does that seem right to you?" Stuck in my head because if anyone on the ship needs a shrink it's Simon. That boy is so socially disfunctional it ain't even funny, especially when it comes to the fairer sex.
Now I did put forth my theory once upon a time that Simon may be gay, but people went and talked me out of it. So I'm willing to say Simon isn't gay. He's just dumb when it comes to women, I mean so dumb it makes Jayne look like a Nobel prize contender by virtue of "That's why I never kiss them on the mouth" line, which ain't saying much, but it's got Simon all manner of beat.
So Simon may not be gay, but he damn sure is...what's the word I'm looking for here. Effiminate doesn't quite capture it, dandy would be giving him too much credit...Oh I got it, a word my grandma used to use, Milqtoast. That's what he is. Now I know the boy has some virtues, he's compassionate and caring towards his sister, and he can be a "man of action" when he really has to be but...it doesn't fit him one little bit. He can do the action thing, but he doesn't do it exceptionally well and he seems to find the whole notion of having to "do" something as opposed to "think" something as slightly beneath him. Hell a lot beneath him in some cases.
Now you went on to do a pretty fair imitation of a Tim Allen skit there, and it was hi-lerious. And ya know what? I have to agree with you. Women (for the most part) ain't as dumb as men, we'll go for just the pretty looks but for a woman it has to be more than that. Women's Lib aside there isn't a woman I've known (and I've known lots...coughcough) that doesn't like a man that can do things, and who is willing to balance that gentlemanly opening of doors thing with the ability to go completely batshit crazy caveman when the situation calls for it.
Yeah prettyboy looks help, and smarts, and a sense of humor but if you're less manly than she is well...you ain't going to get her respect let alone a foundation to build something else on. Women expect a man to be a man, and if he isn't well then no ammount of pretty looks or fat wallet is going to make her keep ya around. Now granted just being "manly" isn't enough, so it helps to try to learn things so as to be able to carry on a conversation, or learn to cook, or for the love of God groom well; but when push comes to shove 90% of women will want a "manly" man who's well rounded in other areas enough to get by as opposed to a "sensitive" man who runs screaming from the sight of a hard day's work or an otherwise "manly" persuit. Know what I mean?
Simon needs what I've told people for years that Hugh Grant needs. Okay bear with this tangent. Hugh Grant is a funny guy, really funny sometimes, and he seems fairly smart and women tell me he's hot (even though I don't see it but hey I ain't looking that hard) and all, but he's a pansy. Yep I said it. P a n s y. You see him in a movie and you know what to expect, which I think is selling the guy short. What he needs to do is take as his next role something like a Commando Captain in WWII with bullets and guns and the whole nine yards. He needs, as ya said, roughed up some. But it can't be a show, he has to believe it so we can believe it, otherwise he's gonna have that pansy connection everytime I see his face on the screen. And that's pretty much the same for Simon, unless he kicks someone's ass and really means it sometime soon, he's gonna be in the Hugh Boat.
Yeah my tongue was firmly in cheek for most of this post but the fact remains, Simon needs to quit being such a sissy and DO something. Kissing Kaylee and meaning it would be a good start. Going batshit crazy with an assault rifle on some Blue Hands and looking like he means it would be even better.
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Annik wrote:
Quote:
I enjoyed this post a great deal, Zoid, until we got to this part. Then I started wondering if perhaps you've been re-reading too many Gor novels lately...
Ummm... Gor? I'm just guessing here, but he's the guy who originally 'rammed' it?
(zoid ducks as bits of rotting vegetable matter rains in from his periphery)
Respectfully,
zoid
P.S.
Please read my next post below, for an equivocation of my previous stance, which I hope may redeem my reputation to gentler readers.
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Gor are a series of really cheesy and mysogonistic (I never could spell that damn word) fantasy books from the '70s. Now I like my fantasy but Gor is...cheeeeeese. And not the good sort of cheese, it's the sort of cheese that makes you want to hit yourself with a hammer.
The guy that wrote them appearently had a leather fetish and thought he was Manly. Of course Robert E. Howard could have kicked his ass and was less of a momma's boy.
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"
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Gunhand and Annik:
As I pointed out earlier -- mostly in jest, I would stress -- something needs to change for Simon. I've got a good idea of what that thing is. With that in mind, I had a vision of a continuation of the scene in which Kaylee 'jumps' Simon, and which would lead to a satisfactory conclusion for their fans, and fit the Firefly story as well. Please consider the following my act of contrition to Simon's avid female admirers:
(As previously read, they're sitting alone in the dining room and Simon has noticed a basket of rolls Kaylee has prepared, on the other side of the table, near her)
SIMON: "Your buns look great. Would you mind...?"
KAYLEE: "Oh, Doc, I thought you'd never ask!"
(A whoosh of clothing, the sound of dishes clattering on the floor and the table creaking for about 30 seconds, and then...)
KAYLEE (mumbles, somewhat endorphin-fully): "Chinese food."
SIMON (disoriented, panting, lolls head towards her): "Huh?"
KAYLEE: "Oh, nothin', Sweetie. (pats his hand patronizingly, still groggy) I was just thinking that oughtta hold me for about 30 minutes. Think I'll go see what Jayne's up to in his bunk."
SIMON (still panting, then after a beat, laughing and tickling her playfully): "The hell you will! I may be 'chinese food', but this is an all-you-can-eat buffet. If you want seconds..."
(At this moment, Wash enters from the flight deck and gets a few paces into the dining room, before stopping in the middle of an apparently satisfying yawn, as he realizes Kaylee and Simon are naked on the table, with their discarded clothing only loosely draped over their bodies)
WASH: "(Yaawww) Whoa! (cough) Okay-hey, hey!"
(As Kaylee unselfconsciously removes her loosely draped blouse and begins putting it back on her torso, Wash spins away)
WASH: "Wow! (raises hand to forehead shading his eyes) I was just coming down to try to grab a bite, and... (drops hand, still looking away) Do you two have any idea what time it is? You kids should really be in bed ...somebody's bed, anybody's bed! ...A, bed, that's what I'm implying."
(Wash suddenly stops speaking and turns back toward the table, where Simon is still propped on one elbow, grinning in amusement and Kaylee has stopped dressing without getting much covered, in order to listen to Wash)
WASH (pointing at table beyond Simon's feet and asking in an incredulous and saddened voice): "Is that fresh bau!?"
(Wash straightens and walks haughtily over to the table, snatches the basket of rolls and promptly exits to flight deck, muttering below his breath, "Everybody gets bau but me! Why can't I ever get bau? It's not too much to ask, is it?", etc.)
In conclusion, I reckon Simon's (probably) hetero, but also a virgin. If Kaylee and he are going to get together, she's probably going to have to close the deal. I think she's had enough experience to know that his initial 30-second performance is nothing to be concerned about, that he'll improve with practice, so to speak; but, I think she might tease him about it, with the quip about going to see Jayne to get a proper 'grapple', similar to the way she teased him about not being able to picture him nude in the opening sequence in of OiS.
At least rate that's one way I could actually see it being done and, of course, I'm never wrong. (zoid chokes a bit, and suddenly has a coughing fit, as he writes that last line)
Respectfully,
zoid
_________________________________________________
"I knew a man once. History will never recall him, or what he gave to make us free. That's the way he wanted it. But as long as I live I'll remember, and he'll never truly die."
- River, from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard
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I can just see that happening with Wash somehow
---------------------------------------------
Experience has taught me that interest begets expectation, and expectation begets disappointment, so the key to avoiding disappointment is to avoid interest. A=B=C=A, or whatever
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In Defense Of Simon Tam
Okay, I have read, with interest and some amusement, the thoughts of certain others (Zoid and Gunhand, basically) and must reply.
First, you are right in saying that Simon needed to change, but you're missing the fact that he was changing. There were obvious outside signs (the gradual shift of the clothing to casual -- though when and why he went out and bought a whole new wardrobe, I have no idea). But there were also shifts in the character -- in Objects in Space, we see him very relaxed and comfortable with Kaylee (and in a way we'd only seen him before when he'd had a few too many mudders' milks.) It takes a while to unlearn habits, and part of the fun of Simon was getting to watch him do so. (Sort of like watching Wesley evolve on Angel}. I suspect the changes would have continued, had the show gone on.
As for his parents, I agree that they were stereotypical, though I suspect they are done that for story-telling reasons. To explain why they were not part of the Tam escape plan, why no effort was made to contact them now, and to heighten the effect of what Simon did to save his sister.
For the record, Zoid, I would't quite use the word "wealthy," but I definitely grew up upper middle class. My parents could not have loved my sister and me more or been more involved in our lives (and I occasionally wished, as a teenager especially, they'd be less involved). They are, simply put, the coolest parents I could ever have asked for, and I'm still in touch with them almost daily (and I'm 26).
Is Simon gay? I don't think so. I think (at least initially--don't know where he was headed) the word I would choose for him is almost "asexual." I don't think it's been a large part of his life, or, if it has, it's been in very structured, courtly ways (like the world of "Shindig"). He has trouble with Kaylee because he's used to women following the rules, and she doesn't. Which probably both attacts and scares him a little. Simon is also in a totally new world, worried about being a fugitive, and probably constantly pre-occupied with the care and well-being of his sister. That's not exactly the best mind-set for courting anyone.
Giving up his whole life to save his sister is, in my opinion, far far braver than anything we've seen from, say, Jayne. It may be a different kind of bravery than storming a skyplex (though, remember, he willingly took part in that, too, even if he couldn't shoot worth a darn), but that doesn't make it any less real or courageous.
The scene that sold me on Simon, though, was in "Trash." (Yes, one of the unaired episodes, which I did not see till I owned the DVD's. It took Simon a while to grow on me -- subtle characters can struggle to be noticed when Jaynes and Washes are on the scene -- not a criticismn of any of them, mind, just an observation). The scene with Jayne in the infirmary. Because confronting Jayne also took courage (because Jayne might have not been moving then, but he was gonna be up and about later), and because while I wouldn't have found fault with Simon if he threated Jayne with death or paralysis, it was so much cooler that he didn't.
Finally, in regards to what us ladies are looking for. I'm not going to trot out the old looks-aren't-important-it's-what's-inside line, because I think they are at least somewhat important. I will say this, though. I've been living either alone or with a female roommate for five years now. I can handle squashing bugs, climbing on chairs to hang pictures or reach the tall shelf, unclogging plumbing, and minor car repair. What I want, in a guy, is someone with a great sense of humor and someone who is my intellectual equal. Which, frankly, is far more Simon than Jayne.
I did, however, love the idea of "Queer Eye for the Firefly." And I suspect those Hawaiian shirts would be out of Wash's closet before the opening credits ended.
Delia
___________________________________________
ANYA: Don't be ridiculous. Martha Stewart isn't a demon. She's a witch.
XANDER:
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Quote:
Does anybody on this board, reading this thread, come from a wealthy family? Were your parents as blase about your well-being as Simon's parents are?
okay, first about this. i think that parents being detached from their children does not necessarily depend on the wealth of the family. my family was not wealthy and while my parents did an admirable job raising their children, they did put too much emphasis on the almighty dollar. this does not come from their desire for their children to maintain the family vault but rather that they wanted a better life for their children than they had and they decided that money was the way to do that. of course, as i have gotten older, i have realized that money cannot buy a lot of things (including happiness as many people would say). of course, money is nice to have, but it is not the center of the universe. in short, i think simon's parents are decent people (from the tiny bit we saw about them) who may not be the best parents, but they are not terrible, that is for sure. their emphasis is in the wrong place. they are almost like those smothering parents that have an all too perfect vision for the lives their children are supposed to live.
Quote:
Is he gay? It's been suggested hereabouts; but just because he's very pretty, fastidious and well-dressed doesn't make him, er, well maybe it does. But I'd guess he's het'ro-, as well as metro-sexual.
not even going to touch this.
Quote:
I mean given Kaylee's observed and confessed proclivities, I'm surprised she hasn't just jumped him.
okay. we all know kaylee is not too shy when it comes to things like this, but in all, she is a naive girl, i think everyone would agree. her infatuation with simon is probably something that she does not completely understand and it may even be the first time that she has been truly attracted to a man. that being said, i think her attitude towards simon borders on a high school girl's crush on the guy with the locker across the hall than it does any kind of lust.
my two cents. anyone have change for a dollar?
PS just had a thought. any possiblity that simon's parents are part of the group that is experimenting on river? or is that too conspiracy theory or x-files-ish?
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