Is There a Doctor in the House? (zoid post)

POSTED BY: zoid
UPDATED: Thursday, June 10, 2004 17:26
VIEWED: 12630
PAGE 7 of 8

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NEXT PAGE

RUE

Saturday, June 5, 2004 3:29 AM

I think what Zoid and Gunhand see in Simon that irks them so is subtle dependency. They interpret him as chosing to be dithering and helpless. That way he avoids heavy lifting.

I don't happen to agree. I imagine his upbringing as being virtually cloistered. He was naturally of a disposition to please his parents, which focused him on doing those things well his parents chose, which got him through all levels of schooling. And a need and habit to do things well keeps him from venturing into new directions, like relating with people who aren't family. Beyond that, he's guiless. With him, it's in for a penny, in for a pound. Of all the characters, he's the one whose INTENTIONS I would trust most.

On the other hand I would put a lot of distance between River and myself, not that she's evil. I equate being around her to dealing with a really large animal who could squash you without noticing (oops). Self-preservation alarms go off at the idea.

ZOID

Saturday, June 5, 2004 7:06 PM

rue wrote:

Quote:
I think what Zoid and Gunhand see in Simon that irks them so is subtle dependency. They interpret him as chosing to be dithering and helpless. That way he avoids heavy lifting.

Well, I can't speak for Gunny; but, the only thing that 'irks' me (too strong a word really) is Simon's youthful ignorance of his surroundings. He is unintentionally self-absorbed. He's not intentionally a peacock, vain, egotistical or uncaring of others' feelings. It just works out that way. Like many young people, he believes that the universe revolves around him. His rational process tells him that if he accidentally steps on another person's sensibilities, he's sorry, but it's not so much that he did something wrong, as it is that the universe -- while in the process of revolving around him -- stuck that person's feelings where he could trip over them.

After a man takes the final step to maturity -- be that at 16 or 46 -- he knows to be more aware of his environment than this. He also knows that if he steps on somebody else's feelings, it's nobody's fault but his own. They didn't ask for it (well, ok, sometimes they do) and it's not the universe's fault either.

Simon hasn't quite gotten that figured out yet. To borrow from my favorite source reference, he hasn't yet had the 'scales' removed from his eyes, he still sees the world through the eyes of a boy, not yet through those of a man. But as I said earlier, I believe he will, strictly because Mal appears to believe he will.

For the umptieth time, he needs to get laid. Becoming one with the female (especially one so openly female as Kaylee), even for those fleeting few seconds, will open his senses to the external world. Is there anything closer to total enlightenment, to heaven, than 'the little death'?

For all the Simon fans, then, just wait; the best of your favorite character is yet to come. Someday very soon, I predict, you will see a change in Simon, and get the gestalt, the 'ah-hah!' of what I and Gunhand and others herein have been talking about.

Either that or you will simply conclude that I'm full of sh*t. Either way, you'll be right. Life instructs, I just run the slide projector...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I knew a man once. History will never recall him, or what he gave to make us free. That's the way he wanted it. But as long as I live I'll remember, and he'll never truly die."

- River, from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

RUE

Saturday, June 5, 2004 9:36 PM

Zoid,

I have apparently stepped on your feelings, something I didn't intend.

I read all the posts and I couldn't figure out what the common thread was - except that something about Simon seemed to rub the wrong way - enough to irk. Since I couldn't see it, I truly endeavored to understand what was being said. I guess I didn't even get that right.

My apologies for my post that came across as contentious (?), or for whatever there was about it it that caused such a reply.

Rue

ZOID

Saturday, June 5, 2004 9:47 PM

rue wrote:

Quote:
I have apparently stepped on your feelings, something I didn't intend.

Not in the least. I just wanted to point out that I don't find humans -- fictional or otherwise -- the least bit irksome, even when their inherent fallibility give me cause for reservation. My last statement in the post is not an indictment of others, it is an indictment of myself.

You're new hereabouts, correct? Ask anybody. I've been described as twisted, convoluted, conspiratorial... And those are just the nice ones

. But I ain't a 'hater'; I just see things from a different perspective (and so does zoid).

Ruefully,

zoid

NICOLACLARKE

Tuesday, June 8, 2004 10:31 PM

At the risk of, um, flogging a dead horse...

I happened to be watching 'Ariel' a few evenings ago, and I have to say that I read the scene with the cardiac arrest guy rather differently than you, Zoid (and others) did. Simon's initial hesitation stems for the fact that it's River's precognition talking. Which he doesn't believe in. As soon as the other doctors become alarmed for the patient, Simon moves (I think the line is "Code Blue"). Before that, he assumes it to be only River's ramblings - back on Serenity earlier in ep, after all, the main thread of her complaints had been "going to die". Why should Simon immediately connect her words with reality? He's heard her say so many things that are crazy or appear to be, so why should he hear this any differently?

Compare the bit in 'Heart of Gold' where River announces "It's starting!", but no-one reacts until Petaline herself starts yelling.

Hmm, I'm beginning to sound like Simon's one-woman cheerleader squad ((obBuffyRef)"I'll really miss the intellectual thrill of spelling out words with my arms." (/ObBuffyRef)) I entirely agree that he's lacking in the grown-up emotional experience department, but then when you do your internship in 8 months you probably aren't leaving a whole bunch of time in your life for social interaction.

I still say he's more a fish out of water on Serenity than a deficient human being in general, though.

/ pure intentions, juxtaposed /

SHINYSEVEN

Tuesday, June 8, 2004 11:06 PM

There's a very old joke--a limousine stops, the chauffeur gets out, opens the back door, and lifts a little boy out of the back seat and carries him. The kid's mother gets out of the limo, and a passerby says, "Oh, the poor little boy! Why can't he walk?" The kid's mother snaps, "Of course he can walk! But with his trust fund, he'll never have to!"

One characteristic of television shows is their predilection for employing attractive persons of less than stellar thespian talent. As far as I'm concerned, Jayne is a repulsive *character*, and Adam Baldwin deserves all the props in the world for excellent acting. I like Simon a lot as a character, but....

As for the Tam family background, I think it's the kind of family where one person gets officially designated as Nuts which allows everyone else to not concentrate on their own peculiarities.

"Sadistic crap legitimized by florid prose"

ZOID

Tuesday, June 8, 2004 11:36 PM

NicolaClarke:

I didn't mean my statement to be read literally. When I said Simon denies his profession 3 times "before the alarm crows, er, sounds", I meant that his denial is symbolic of the apostle Peter's denial of Christ (3 times before the cock crows). Authors (and filmmakers) often use 'Christ figure' symbolism in their storytelling: to denote who the main character is, to show selfless suffering, etc. That scene certainly appeared to me to be reminiscent of Peter's denial.

Regardless, there can be no mistake that Simon did deny his Hippocratic oath when he refused to treat Kaylee's GSW until Mal agreed to turn the ship. So is he deficient? Oh, yeah. Now, refer me to the human being you think isn't deficient. As I said, I like Simon because Mal does. Mal's judgement of character has got to be right, because Firefly is Mal's story. It's his world, everyone else just lives in it.

BTW, do you know the apostle Peter's first name? Thaaaat's right: Simon.

But I'm sure this is all just a coincidence. I'm sure Joss never thought about any of this beforehand, aren't you? The whole Simon Peter thing is just happenstance, don't you think?

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Riddle me this: When does flogging a dead horse become administering the horse CPR?

Answer: When they start filming the BDM! Keep flogging, Nicki...
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 317 days, 5 hours, 33 minutes, and 3 seconds left until The BDM!

SHINYSEVEN

Wednesday, June 9, 2004 4:04 AM

Well, considering that in the series finale of Angel, Angel says that someone is going to betray him, and Spike cheerily volunteers and offers to deny him three times too...I think we can assume that it's in the Jossverse playbook.

However, it's often a BAD idea to stop in the middle of a major felony to perform medical procedures when you have phony ID of dubious quality. I'm glad that it all worked out, but it would have been Typical Jossverse Luck for River to get killed in the kerfuffle that one would expect to occur.

RUE

Wednesday, June 9, 2004 6:00 AM

Hello Zoid,

I'm glad I didn't offend.

Yes, I'm pretty new here and don't post often. (What's the name when you read but don't post much - a lurker? Then I am that.)

I have to say I relish the level of writing, wit, talent, knowledge, humor, wisdom, insight ... it seems to come naturally to so many people on this board. So I'll just keep on readin' ... with the occasional post.

DELIA

Thursday, June 10, 2004 3:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NicolaClarke:
Hmm, I'm beginning to sound like Simon's one-woman cheerleader squad ((obBuffyRef)"I'll really miss the intellectual thrill of spelling out words with my arms." (/ObBuffyRef))

I'll join the cheerleading squad, even if it does involve spelling words with my arms.

I'm enjoying this thread, though I think we are all starting to repeat ourselves.

I'm enjoying this thread, though I think we are all starting to repeat ourselves.

Still, I think I've gotten a lot of insight into the character. I'll be very curious to see what Simon is like in the movie, when (as near as I can keep the time line straight) he'll have been on Serenity for about a year. Should be curious to see how much of the proper doctor demeanor he's managed to shed (and he can shed all those shiny vests, too. And I'm not using shiny in the Firefly sense of the word).

Okay, Zoid, are you planning to get a conversation going on anyone else?

Delia

___________________________________________
ANGEL: People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.
HAMILTON: Yeah, but we won't care.

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NEXT PAGE